What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

RV-10 $18,000 Insurance Quote

RV-10 $18,000 insurance quote

You are exactly right and that is called bad faith claim handling. The insurance company has a fiduciary duty to its insured to handle the claim in good faith. So in the situation you described, the insurance really has no limits after it refuses to settle the claim within the limits.

The other side of that situation is the when that claim in initially reported, the insurance company will send you a letter telling you that your liability limits are $100,000.00 and that the value of the liability claim may be more than your limits. The letter will suggest that you hire a personal attorney (in addition to the attorney the insurance company hired to defend you) to help you decide if you need to offer your personal assets in addition to the money from the insurance policy to settle the claim.

Many times in the course of the litigation, the plaintiff's attorney will be investigating you personal assets to see of there are assets to supplement the limits the insurance company has.

That is why you should buy the highest limits you can get. The highest I could get on my RV-12 for a passenger is $200,000.00. Since my Onex is a single seat aircraft, there is no sub-limit for passengers.

This is not a good situation to be in and it happens.
 
IIWY I would get transition training in type in an instructor’s plane. Get liability only plus non-in motion full coverage for airplane so you fulfill Airport requirements. Fly, fly, fly get more time and ratings. Then apply for full coverage.
 
You are exactly right and that is called bad faith claim handling. The insurance company has a fiduciary duty to its insured to handle the claim in good faith. So in the situation you described, the insurance really has no limits after it refuses to settle the claim within the limits.

The other side of that situation is the when that claim in initially reported, the insurance company will send you a letter telling you that your liability limits are $100,000.00 and that the value of the liability claim may be more than your limits. The letter will suggest that you hire a personal attorney (in addition to the attorney the insurance company hired to defend you) to help you decide if you need to offer your personal assets in addition to the money from the insurance policy to settle the claim.

Many times in the course of the litigation, the plaintiff's attorney will be investigating you personal assets to see of there are assets to supplement the limits the insurance company has.

That is why you should buy the highest limits you can get. The highest I could get on my RV-12 for a passenger is $200,000.00. Since my Onex is a single seat aircraft, there is no sub-limit for passengers.

This is not a good situation to be in and it happens.

Wouldn’t having insurance only make one a bigger target in a suit? I never hear of death suits and few injury suits settled for only a couple hundred thousand. And if it is suggested one hire their own attorney, what good is the insurance co.’s defense? If you have a net worth of say $5m, have $1m insurance, lose a suit to the tune of $6m, would you be left with only your lawyer’s bill?
The best defense is to not own enough to make a suit worth the lawyers time. If you add some insurance, it becomes worthwhile.
 
Last edited:
Wouldn’t having insurance only make one a bigger target in a suit? I never hear of death suits and few injury suits settled for only a couple hundred thousand. And if it is suggested one hire their own attorney, what good is the insurance co.’s defense? If you have a net worth of say $5m, have $1m insurance, lose a suit to the tune of $6m, would you be left with only your lawyer’s bill?
The best defense is to not own enough to make a suit worth the lawyers time. If you add some insurance, it becomes worthwhile.

Few atty’s will take the case if the only assets available are $100k in insurance. Insurance makes little difference in death or serious injuries. It helps a lot in minor cases where the passenger can get some financial relief without going to court. Insurance should reimburse medical expenses up to the limit without lawsuits. Attys will consider it if the defendant has $1m in assets outside of their home.
 
Last edited:
Registration

In this state, "going bare" isn't an option for an airworthy aircraft. Minnesota requires liability insurance as a condition of registration. Proof of insurance has to be included with each annual registration. Other states are similar in requiring liability insurance, or at least require proof of financial responsibility (usually in the form a surety bond of some kind). Proof of insurance is also required by the airport where I keep my plane as a condition of hangar rental. YMMV.


...

How do they enforce this? Aircraft registrations are submitted to the FAA, not the state government.


Skylor
 
Annual state registration is required for all airplanes in Minnesota (there is no annual property tax on airplanes here). Every June 1. Unrelated to FAA registration.

I also have to provide proof of insurance when I pay my annual car registrations, which is actually quite a bit higher than my airplane registration.
 
The majority of states have no rules requiring insurance for airplanes; some do, but the required coverage is usually ludicrously low. More common is for airports to require liability coverage from their tenants; but this is not to protect tenants, it’s because the airport wants itself to be a named insured. They want to be sure that they’re covered for anything a tenant might do.
 
An actual example

2020 insurance with around 650 hrs, (not IFR),250 HP/Complex and 3 hrs transition training I was at about $4,000. Hard to say exactly because I transitioned from builders to flying insurance after about 3 mos..

2021 with 110 hrs RV10 time added I am at $3,100

Hull value at 225K both years.
 
Most responses on this thread are only dealing with passenger risk...what if you have an abrupt in flight failure and crash into a crowded building, or land on a road causing a bus full of people to wreck? Clearly none of these limits will be enough.

Bigger question seems to be how to get the rest of your assets out of reach...would a trust or an LLC help here?
 
The majority of states have no rules requiring insurance for airplanes; some do, but the required coverage is usually ludicrously low. More common is for airports to require liability coverage from their tenants; but this is not to protect tenants, it’s because the airport wants itself to be a named insured. They want to be sure that they’re covered for anything a tenant might do.

Yes. Only 11 states have some kind of insurance or proof-of-financial responsibility laws. Minnesota is the only state that requires nearly all general aviation owners to have liability insurance. The minimum amount required is $100,000 per passenger seat liability for passenger bodily injury or death and for property damage; $100,000 for bodily injury or death to each non-passenger in any one accident; and $300,000 per occurrence for bodily injury or death to non-passengers in any one accident.

Otherwise,
Hawaii, Maryland, Oregon, and Rhode Island require general aviation aircraft owners and operators to have liability insurance if they either hangar their aircraft at a state-owned airport or operate their aircraft for commercial purposes (leasing or renting out aircraft, for example).

California, Connecticut, Indiana, Massachusetts, and Virginia general aviation aircraft owners and operators are required to demonstrate aircraft financial responsibility by showing differing combinations of liability insurance, a bond, deposits of money or securities, or a letter of credit.

North Dakota has an aircraft financial responsibility requirement, but does not specify how civilian aviation pilots, owners and operators should demonstrate financial responsibility to the state.

Honestly, I didn't realize liability insurance was a requirement here, but it really didnt matter...I could see me flying without hull insurance, but certainly not without liability insurance.
 
Bigger question seems to be how to get the rest of your assets out of reach...would a trust or an LLC help here?

No. Revocable trusts are just another asset pool for the attorneys; No safety provided. The benefits are mostly tax avoidance and eliminating probate issues. Irrevocable trusts, I believe, are protected, as they are not really your assets and you have no real way to withdraw from them; That money has already legally been given to someone else. These are usually used by the big money families and can't imagine there is much of this in experimental ownership. LLCs do nothing, as it is not the airplane that is liable for the damage, it is the pilot. If the pilot were flying commercially under the employ of the LLC, that would be a somewhat different matter. If you setup an LLC for the sole purpose of holding your money or reducing taxes, I am pretty sure it would be fair game for the plaintiff.

Primary homes (2nd homes, etc. are excluded) are almost universally shielded from judgements. Further, many states will prevent plantiffs from tapping into official retirement accounts (IRA, 401k, etc.). Those are about the only two places to shield money from negligence judgements.

Larry
 
Last edited:
Ground Injuries

Most responses on this thread are only dealing with passenger risk...what if you have an abrupt in flight failure and crash into a crowded building, or land on a road causing a bus full of people to wreck? Clearly none of these limits will be enough.

Bigger question seems to be how to get the rest of your assets out of reach...would a trust or an LLC help here?

While occasionally, though rare, RV sized (even the -10) single engine general aviation aircraft accidents have caused individual fatalities on the ground, it's quite rare for these accidents to result in multiple ground fatalities even when there is a direct hit on a vehicle or structure. One can worry all they want about liability for this type of risk but the data points to it being incredibly low. Frankly, if you're that risk averse you probably shouldn't be flying GA aircraft in the first place!

Skylor
 
Last edited:
I have had a horror story with Star when it came to a totally legitimate claim. A friend had a professional ferry service move his Super Cub and the highly-rated yet green ferry pilot ground looped the heck out of it at the first fuel stop. The ferry outfit (operated by some lady out of Austin who is a hit on the social media sites) had Star. So ...Star is full of ****.

I have zero experience with Star, so this is not a defense or indictment...but it sounds like Star was trying every avenue to minimize exposure to their client. And it bears stating that the airplane owner, in this case, is NOT their client (unless the a/c owner had hull coverage with Star.). My takeaway is to check with my insurer before having my plane ferried. I assume if the plane was damaged, my insurance would pay me and then go after the ferry company for restitution. Sorry for the thread creep.
 
RV-10 $18,000 insurance quote

There is another aspect to this matter, personal financial responsibility. Let's say you are taking a friend for a ride as I do all the time. You have a landing accident and your friend suffers serious, but non-life threatening injuries. By the time he recovers he has $50,000.00 in medical bills. Plus he misses work for two months and does not get paid.

Would you feel responsible for his injuries and expenses? If so, having liability insurance, and medical payments coverage, will get his claim settled up to the passenger liability on the policy.
 
There is another aspect to this matter, personal financial responsibility. Let's say you are taking a friend for a ride as I do all the time. You have a landing accident and your friend suffers serious, but non-life threatening injuries. By the time he recovers he has $50,000.00 in medical bills. Plus he misses work for two months and does not get paid.

Would you feel responsible for his injuries and expenses? If so, having liability insurance, and medical payments coverage, will get his claim settled up to the passenger liability on the policy.

To add to that, subrogation efforts in the medical insurance arena is on the uptick. Many payers will now ask their members if their large expenses are the result of an accident and will then look to collect from another insurer or the responsible party directly. In some cases, it may not be just doing the right thing.

Larry
 
Speaking of subrogation,

For you instructors out there. I have been requiring a Waver of Subrogation from each RV owner's insurance I have flown with. It is usually only 2 emails and you're done. But makes sure everyone stays friends if a tire blows on landing, and the prop touches a runway light.
 
Back
Top