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Wingtip Hinges

JDA_BTR

Well Known Member
Thinking about installing wingtip hinges. Read the excellent articles so far on the subject looks easy enough.

What hinge material is correct to buy from ACS?
Which VOR antenna from archer is correct for our plane (I think "model 1"), and I'll rivet the antenna in to the tip hinge to ground it.

The construction method pretty much guarantees a gap between the wing and tip equal to the width of the cutoff wheel used to take off the flange. Has anybody tried to mitigate this by cutting the flange a little closer to the wing side, thus leaving the flange to go a bit under the metal lip of the wing? The little flange would sandwich between the hinge and the skin..... Maybe I'm overthinking it and it would be too hard to fit properly like that.
 
Thinking about installing wingtip hinges. Read the excellent articles so far on the subject looks easy enough.

What hinge material is correct to buy from ACS?
Which VOR antenna from archer is correct for our plane (I think "model 1"), and I'll rivet the antenna in to the tip hinge to ground it.

Just curious, why would you want to put a hinge on there? Are you planning on taking the wing tip off a lot?
 
I have two sets of wing tips for my -6A. They both incorporate the piano hinge feature. There is no gap "the width of a cut off wheel.

I followed the directions published by ??( can't remember his name) but his web name had "possemworks" in it. He was located in Tennessee.

Just remember to leave a section of the flange on at the leading edge of the tip, cut off the flange the rest of the way aft, and then as you are match drilling the tip to the piano hinge, be sure to keep pressure on the tip to minimize the gap.
 
I used this approach. It does take a little extra effort, but I think mine came out nice. My wings are still in the rack though. I used a mix of hinge widths for each joint. On one side you use a wider hinge so that the actual hinge joint is hidden under the wingtip fiberglass. The hinge that is totally hidden can be narrower. I guess you could just use the wide ones in both spots but no reason to.

I don't have the Archer installed yet since I don't plan to initially have a Nav radio. I started thinking that I should have installed the antenna though after I got all of the hinges mounted.

Oh one other thing. Buy a couple of extra hinges so if you make a mistake you don't have to pay for shipping 6' hinges again.
 
Sounds good; Stoney I really like the look of it without the screws. A friend here did his RV9 that way and it looks very clean. And it is easy to pull the tip if you want to; mainly it won't have screws under the paint. It is only a slight bit more work.
 
Just did this. Mike Bullock's site has documented a good procedure:

http://www.rvplane.com/?categoryid=3&dayid=567

No need to mark the wingtip for the second hinge half. Just mount the second hinge half and drill through predrilled pilot holes with a right angle drill.

You can mark the edge of the wing skin on the wingtip, and then cut off closer to the first row of holes so there is no gap showing. Also, use a wide hinge on the wingskin side so the hinge gaps don't show. I think I used P4 hinge on both sides to provide extra surface for supplemental epoxy bonding.

I drilled extra holes between the rivets and let some epoxy flox squeeze out to make epoxy rivets between the soft aluminum rivets on the wingtip. I think I was able to use hard rivets on the wingskin because the fiberglass is sandwiched between the wingskin and the hinge.

It is a very slick mounting.
 
RV14 Wng tip

Thinking about installing wingtip hinges. Read the excellent articles so far on the subject looks easy enough.

What hinge material is correct to buy from ACS?
Which VOR antenna from archer is correct for our plane (I think "model 1"), and I'll rivet the antenna in to the tip hinge to ground it.

The construction method pretty much guarantees a gap between the wing and tip equal to the width of the cutoff wheel used to take off the flange. Has anybody tried to mitigate this by cutting the flange a little closer to the wing side, thus leaving the flange to go a bit under the metal lip of the wing? The little flange would sandwich between the hinge and the skin..... Maybe I'm overthinking it and it would be too hard to fit properly like that.
I followed Mike Bullock's excellent instructions as mentioned in the previous post. I like the way the wingtip looks without screws. I also installed the Archer antenna in the left tip. I don't remember the Archer model number, but Mr. Archer loved that I used the hinge as a ground plane. If you choose to use the hinge as a ground plane be certain to clean off the Anodizing. It is an insulator.
2mqj59k.jpg

Archer antenna
iqd0y9.jpg
 
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More Rivets ??

I am referring to Mike Bullock's article in Kitplanes to attach my wingtips. He comments that the provided holes for #6 screws are not sufficient and advises to add another rivet in between the existing holes. Is there some engineering that supports this or is it just more is better? Anyone know - I'm no engineer.

Keith
 
We always use the hinge. Same reason as using the hinge on the cowl, clean and neat look. Use the same hinge as between the top and bottom cowl. I don't know if spruce has it, but it is the most common hinge used in the build. Leave the hinge off the front part. You will most likely need a couple of screws on the front, top and bottom, so the hinge pin doesn't have to bend as much.

As for he Bob Arch r antenna, I never attach that to the wingtip. I put it on a piece of 1/16" angle that screws onto the end rib into 2 nutplates. That way you can hook it up withour the wingtip in the way.
 
Rivets??

Jesse - i am using the correct hinge and not using the Archer antenna. But Do u add more rivets than the provided holes for the #6 screws on the wing??
Keith
 
Jesse - i am using the correct hinge and not using the Archer antenna. But Do u add more rivets than the provided holes for the #6 screws on the wing??
Keith

I'm not sure on the wing side. I think we just use the existing holes. On the wingtip side we put them closer together. On the wing there is metal to metal attachment with a fiberglass spacer. On the wingtip the rivets are holding in the fiberglass itself, so they need more rivets. It wouldn't hurt to add an extra rivet in between each two screw holes.
 
Jesse, do you have a picture of how you mount the Archer antenna on a piece of angle? I can see the base leg, but does the rest of it just flop around? Or do you secure it somehow? Thanks.
 
Lynn,

I used the 6' lengths of MS20257-4 and MS20257-3. For each joint I used one half of each. You need a total of 4 hinges but I would suggest you buy at least one extra of each. Vans sells them as; AN257-P3X6' and AN257-P4X6'.
 
Lynn,

I used the 6' lengths of MS20257-4 and MS20257-3. For each joint I used one half of each. You need a total of 4 hinges but I would suggest you buy at least one extra of each. Vans sells them as; AN257-P3X6' and AN257-P4X6'.

Perfect! Thanks! So its looking like I need to add 3 each of those 6 foot pieces of hinges right? Did they also come with the hinge pins, or is that something that I need to also add in?
 
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Hinges

Lynn,
The -4 goes on the wing and the -3 on the tip. The idea is to hide the joint for a cleaner install.
Marvin
 
You should only need two each of the hinges. Make sure you get the 6' sections. I made the mistake of ordering the 3' and they are about 10" too short.

The -4 goes on the wing like Marvin said so that the pin eyelets are hidden.
 
Lynn,
The -4 goes on the wing and the -3 on the tip. The idea is to hide the joint for a cleaner install.
Marvin

You should only need two each of the hinges. Make sure you get the 6' sections. I made the mistake of ordering the 3' and they are about 10" too short.

The -4 goes on the wing like Marvin said so that the pin eyelets are hidden.


Thanks for the info guys. Yeah, I was figuring 2 each of the hinges should get it done, but they are pretty cheap so I figured I would add an extra one each while I was paying the crating/shipping charges for the wings. Would probably be good to have an extra on hand just in case
 
Has anyone had any issues with a gap between the skin and tip? I haven't cut mine yet, but I still cant wrap my head around the finished product. I'd think you'd wind up with a gap the width of the cutting tool, would you not? Or do you offset the cut line to line up perfectly with the skin since it doesn't go underneath the skin as it does with the typical install?
 
Doesn't matter

Tim,

Even if you are left with a small gap between the FG and the metal end of the wing, the hinge materials travels across this gap (down below). So, all you would have to do is tape up the metal edge after everything is done, then coat the gap with epoxy and flox to fill it in. After cure, remove the tip, then remove the tape off the metal. Sand a little bit and you should be left with a minimal gap. Keep in mind that you'll likely want a bit of a gap for paint, but this method would allow you to make it a smaller, even gap. Clear as mud, Capt! :D
 
Any reason not to offset the cut? If you move it 1/8" to 3/16" inboard (toward the fuselage), the remaining flange on the tip could tuck under the skin. A very slight taper at the edge should allow it to slide between skin & hinge.

Charlie
 
Any reason not to offset the cut? If you move it 1/8" to 3/16" inboard (toward the fuselage), the remaining flange on the tip could tuck under the skin. A very slight taper at the edge should allow it to slide between skin & hinge.

Charlie

You want the hinge to sit flush on the FG, so a lip of FG left on could be detrimental, IMO.
 
Its been a while since I did mine so I'm trying to remember the exact procedure. If I remember correctly the cutoff piece of the wingtip is used as a spacer for the hinge. It isn't all that wide if the cut is performed in the normal manner. I don't think it would be a good to make this piece any narrower.
 
I followed Mike Bullock's excellent instructions as mentioned in the previous post. I like the way the wingtip looks without screws. I also installed the Archer antenna in the left tip. I don't remember the Archer model number, but Mr. Archer loved that I used the hinge as a ground plane. If you choose to use the hinge as a ground plane be certain to clean off the Anodizing. It is an insulator.
2mqj59k.jpg


that wingtip makes me smile and I don't even own it. really nice.
 
Tim,

I followed the instructions and it worked out fine. I think you might be missing a minor detail about the cut. First the tip is fitted to the wing then you make the cut right at the edge of the step in the wingtip. This is the section that would previously been under the wing skin so there isn't inherently a gap produced by the cut.
 
Okay, that's what I was thinking after getting some more info. At first, I thought you traced a line from the wing skin and cut there. So inevitably, you'd have a gap. But that makes sense now!
 
As we usually manhandle our aeroplanes via the tips, how do the hinged tips stand up to handling rather than screwed tips ?
 
Attachment Strength

Mike,
If you follow the "Mike Bullock" instructions like I did he recommends twice as many rivets as screws. You can achieve a very neat joint, very quick removal of the tips and with just as many rivets (2 per nut plate v's hinge riveted at half the plan spacing) I can't see how it could be any weaker. For the cost of some piano hinge I was glad I did it this way.
 
Alignment & cut line

Just beginning mine but I'm beginning to favor the hinge method. I understand the crux of it, but hoping for some clarification. Two questions: 1: Is proper alignment between the tip trailing edge and aileron trailing edge established, by properly positioning (taping) the tip onto the wing and drilling the tip flange using the predrilled holes on the wing as a guide? (assuming of course the tip is properly positioned before drilling). 2: How is the location of the flange cut line determined in order to ensure the final product results in a nice, uniform butt joint between the tip & wing skin? Thanks for the discussion.
 
Wing tip hinge tips

Just beginning mine but I'm beginning to favor the hinge method. I understand the crux of it, but hoping for some clarification. Two questions: 1: Is proper alignment between the tip trailing edge and aileron trailing edge established, by properly positioning (taping) the tip onto the wing and drilling the tip flange using the predrilled holes on the wing as a guide? (assuming of course the tip is properly positioned before drilling). 2: How is the location of the flange cut line determined in order to ensure the final product results in a nice, uniform butt joint between the tip & wing skin? Thanks for the discussion.

Maybe this will help
http://wirejockrv7a.blogspot.com/p/wing-tips.html
Most would recommend waiting till the wings and control surfaces are rigged. I elected to lock the aileron into rigged position and fit the tips. One had to be split. The other fit.
The flange is easy. Once the tip is fit to the wing and control surface, tape it in place. Trace the skin edge on the tip flange. Remove the tip. The difference between where the tip flange joggle and the line is how much needs to be removed so the joggle lands against the skin.
 
In the process of mounting wingtips with the hinge. It seems there will be a conflict on the upper surface between the outboard hinge half and the W1016 wingtip rib. How did you folks deal with that interference?:confused:
 
Wingtip play

Just finished installation of the hinges per the “Mike Bullock method” in Kitplanes for one wingtip and I seem to have about 1/8” play at the trailing edge. Is this just a result of mixing and matching the -3 and -4 hinges or do I need to add some reinforcement elsewhere? Searched the forum for an answer but couldn’t find anything.
 
Just finished installation of the hinges per the “Mike Bullock method” in Kitplanes for one wingtip and I seem to have about 1/8” play at the trailing edge. Is this just a result of mixing and matching the -3 and -4 hinges or do I need to add some reinforcement elsewhere? Searched the forum for an answer but couldn’t find anything.

I too have the 1/8" play due to the hinges. I've flown 300 hours that way and it's never caused any issue, however I'm still looking for a solution too. It's on my list to try and get to the bottom of it during this year's annual. Maybe someone else has "fixed" it.
 
I have the same endplay of the wingtip. It’s caused by the small gap between the mated hinges. I’ve been looking for a solution as well. It’s slightly irritating. A fix might be to lock the inner and outer hinges relative to each other at the wing tip end. Maybe a triangular aluminum plate that locks with screws on the bottom inside of the wing/wingtip. Still thinking it over…
 
I have the same endplay of the wingtip. It’s caused by the small gap between the mated hinges. I’ve been looking for a solution as well. It’s slightly irritating. A fix might be to lock the inner and outer hinges relative to each other at the wing tip end. Maybe a triangular aluminum plate that locks with screws on the bottom inside of the wing/wingtip. Still thinking it over…

Can someone please explain where/how this endplay is, I am not sure if I can picture it? I just finished one wing and will be riveting the second wing tip tomorrow.
The one I have done is pretty darn solid with no movement up/down at the trailing edge. If I grab the trailing edge of the wingtip and try to rock it, the movement at the attachment points (at the trailing edge of the wing) is measured in few thou of inch

My hinges run all the way to the very end of the wing, including the top hinge but putting the pin in requires some cuss words. I am hoping it will ease up with some Boalub and perhaps time.
 
Can someone please explain where/how this endplay is, I am not sure if I can picture it?

That's where the play can be. I have a bit on one wing tip and not the other. Interesting enough the tip with the extra play is the tip with the very tight hinge pins. Mine is not near 1/8" though. I have flown 70 hrs and have not had any issues with it. Doesn't seem to be getting worse.
 
Hinge pins

...
My hinges run all the way to the very end of the wing, including the top hinge but putting the pin in requires some cuss words. I am hoping it will ease up with some Boalub and perhaps time.

Use a drill and boelube. Run them in and out with the drill.
 
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