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Radio communications

How do you identify yourself to the tower?

  • Experimental

    Votes: 54 46.2%
  • Experimental RV

    Votes: 23 19.7%
  • RV

    Votes: 38 32.5%
  • Call sign only

    Votes: 2 1.7%

  • Total voters
    117

Earl Findlay

Active Member
I was flying my RV-9 out of Spokane last weekend and got absolutely admonished by ATC.

I called the tower "Spokane Tower, Experimental RV N123AB five south, inbound"

ATC responds "There is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON TO TELL ME YOU'RE EXPERIMENTAL. YOU'RE AN RV I KNOW YOU ARE EXPERIMENTAL."

I thought that we were required to identify ourselves as experimental.

What did I do wrong??
 
Wow! You said exactly what the books say to say. It's how I identify if I ever fly into a towered field. Maybe the controller had a bad day and forgot his CDB oil that day. :D
 
According to the AIM

What you described is very common practice and it seems odd that it drew a rebuke.

Here's what the AIM says. In my case, I would think that "RV Niner Two Niner Juliet Alpha Experimental" is correct, and of course that's totally contrary to what that controller told you...

Civil aircraft pilots should state the aircraft type, model or manufacturer's name, followed by the digits/letters of the registration number. When the aircraft manufacturer's name or model is stated, the prefix ?N? is dropped; e.g., Aztec Two Four Six Four Alpha.
EXAMPLE-

Bonanza Six Five Five Golf.

Breezy Six One Three Romeo Experimental (omit ?Experimental? after initial contact).
 
I was flying my RV-9 out of Spokane last weekend and got absolutely admonished by ATC.

I called the tower "Spokane Tower, Experimental RV N123AB five south, inbound"

ATC responds "There is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON TO TELL ME YOU'RE EXPERIMENTAL. YOU'RE AN RV I KNOW YOU ARE EXPERIMENTAL."

I thought that we were required to identify ourselves as experimental.

What did I do wrong??

You did the right thing so that makes this poll pointless.

Probably the best thing to do if the freq. isn't too busy is to mention that your operating limitations that were issued to you and all other experimentals by the FAA require you to identify yourself as an experiemental on your first call to an aircraft control tower and that you could potentially be written up for a violation if you don't. After that, it can be dropped from your subsequent calls.
 
You did the right thing so that makes this poll pointless.

Probably the best thing to do if the freq. isn't too busy is to mention that your operating limitations that were issued to you and all other experimentals by the FAA require you to identify yourself as an experiemental on your first call to an aircraft control tower and that you could potentially be written up for a violation if you don't. After that, it can be dropped from your subsequent calls.

Better idea, if you feel you have to add "experimental" (RVs are so common now, I think it's becoming very common to just drop it, and nobody cares), would be to call the tower manager and have a chat with them about a) the *actual* regulations, and b) the attitude of the controller.

It's not usually productive to get into any kind of dispute over the air. Speaking from experience.
 
Indeed

It's not usually productive to get into any kind of dispute over the air. Speaking from experience.

Yup. My lawyerly take is that any time you and ATC are on the radio discussing anything that occurred in the past, nothing good is happening for you. :)
 
Snippy Controller

A different topic but a similar remark from ATC. Last Thursday, I had departed a UNICOM airport in Tennessee and requested VFR Flight Following to my destination, which was in Alabama. He was busy and I thought I got walked on when I told him I would be climbing up to 5500 ft MSL so I wasn't sure how much of my transmission he had heard. I had given him my altitude earlier to verify my transponder altitude but as far as I knew he didn't know how high I was going to go. He was a Memphis ARTCC controller and was busy so I thought I'd just keep quiet.

Well, when I reached my cruising altitude of 5500 feet, I transmitted, "Memphis Center, Skyhawk 79599 level at five thousand five hundred."

And then he said, "79599, I'm watching your altitude so I know how high you are."

Hmmmm.....

So I replied with a simple "Five nine nine." As others posted above, don't argue with a controller.

Maybe it's because I have ADS-B out, and somehow I've missed that we can truncate our transmissions regarding altitude. Or maybe he was having a bad day. Or maybe someone (hope it wasn't me) had irritated him.
 
I used to use experimental, but they ultimately ask for aircraft type, which is more useful to them and others. I know the experimental is in the Reg?s, in the interim, I tried ?experimental RV 199EC, but then shortened to RV. Even when I was doing experimental test flying in a Beech 1900D, ATC got upset when we called in as experimental.
 
I used to say Experimental, but they?d usually ask me what type when they saw the speed, so I just started saying RV.

I know what the regs say... but the FAA and the federal government doesn?t always get it right.

Chalk it up to technic.

X
 
We don't write the regs.

When they gave us RVx rather than just HXA, B, etc (assuming you are on an active flight plan) they never changed using, "experimental."

Ask him if he's ready to copy a phone number- assuming you are never going back;)
 
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The controller is wrong. Just keep calling in as 'experimental' to that facility. He will have to get over himself eventually.
 
FAR 91.319

(d) Each person operating an aircraft that has an experimental certificate shall -

(3) Notify the control tower of the experimental nature of the aircraft when operating the aircraft into or out of airports with operating control towers.

Nuff said?
 
I have used either, although I feel that saying ?RV?, although not technically the correct way to do it, gives the controller more information. He knows it?s experimental, and also will probably have a good idea of the performance. Not many controllers are unfamiliar with RVs. That being said, I once flew 500 miles with ATC thinking I was ?Army? instead of RV, so you need to make sure you annunciate properly...
 
It's not usually productive to get into any kind of dispute over the air. Speaking from experience.

I couldn't agree more. I never mentioned doing it in the context of a dispute.
I see it as passing a piece of info that this particular controller obviously doesn't know. That simple piece of info could be enough for them to totally change their attitude.
Additionally, there is no way for me or anyone else to know the context of the exchange based on the information that was given. In a lot of situations, tower controllers are twiddling their thumbs for a good part of their shift. In that type of situation, I don't see it as inappropriate, but that is also why I specifically said "if the freq. isn't too busy".

I have had numerous instances over the years where I have had a short conversation with a controller (when traffic load was light) where an exchange of info (in answering a question I had or they had) took place and they have always seemed appreciative. I do always preface by giving them the opportunity to decline me asking a question or making a comment. Since I don't even ask if it seems like the amount of radio traffic would make it in appropriate, I have never been told no.
 
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I do not see an option on the poll for the way I always call the tower.


RV tail-number EXPERIMENTAL, ...

My OpLims require that I identify the EXPERIMENTAL nature of the aircraft and I do that by saying EXPERIMENTAL after the type and tail-number.

I drop the EXPERIMENTAL at non-tower airports and when calling center or approach.

By making any call EXPERIMENTAL tail-number, you do not give enough info to know how the aircraft performs. I would prefer to know the type so I have some idea of what speed you will be flying at.
 
amateur-built/homebuilt = experimental?

Definition:
ADJECTIVE
1 (of a new invention or product) based on untested ideas or techniques and not yet established or finalized.

Today's RVs: mass produced factory kits of which thousands zip thru the skies :cool:
Having filled the pre-punched holes of that proven design with rivets, hooked up your expensive pre-wired panel and hung up that Lycodyno doesn't make it that experimental does it?

Not disputing the regs here, but on a practical aspect ATC only needs a callsign and an altitude. Need more and they will ask... any ATCC on the VAF?
 
Well, one other way to solve the issue is to fly from a non-towered field and never use ATC services. Then there?s no need to notify anyone of the ?experimental nature?, right? :D;)
 
There was a colossal thread on this not too long ago. Somewhat heated and very thorough.

Suggest you look for that one rather than go back over everyone's opinions.
 
amateur-built/homebuilt = experimental?

Definition:
ADJECTIVE
1 (of a new invention or product) based on untested ideas or techniques and not yet established or finalized.

Today's RVs: mass produced factory kits of which thousands zip thru the skies :cool:
Having filled the pre-punched holes of that proven design with rivets, hooked up your expensive pre-wired panel and hung up that Lycodyno doesn't make it that experimental does it?

Not disputing the regs here, but on a practical aspect ATC only needs a callsign and an altitude. Need more and they will ask... any ATCC on the VAF?

This thread is referencing a U.S. requirement in the FAA-issued Operating Limitations and FAR?s. Not necessarily applicable in other countries....
 
unintended consequences

My N number has brought me a minor unintended consequences annoyance. My number is only 4 characters instead of the more common 5 and starts with a 7. The aircraft is an RV7.

So when I call in "experimental RV 76CX" it sounds like "experinmetal RV7 6CX" and the controllers assume I'm truncating the Id and ask for the full callsign. I'm sure they also don't care if it's a -7, -8, -9 or whatever.

So now I usually add the N: "experimnetal RV... N76CX" (the '...' being a slight pause. I'm sure the controllers think i'm a little odd for throwing in the N, but there has been no more confusion.
 
My N number has brought me a minor unintended consequences annoyance. My number is only 4 characters instead of the more common 5 and starts with a 7. The aircraft is an RV7.

So when I call in "experimental RV 76CX" it sounds like "experinmetal RV7 6CX" and the controllers assume I'm truncating the Id and ask for the full callsign. I'm sure they also don't care if it's a -7, -8, -9 or whatever.

So now I usually add the N: "experimnetal RV... N76CX" (the '...' being a slight pause. I'm sure the controllers think i'm a little odd for throwing in the N, but there has been no more confusion.

mine is the same way, N82RB but its a RV-4. I just omit the RV, "tower, experimental 82RB 10 out....."
 
"I'm sure the controllers think i'm a little odd for throwing in the N, but there has been no more confusion."

I use "November" for every first call Clearance Deliv, Ground Tower Approach etc.

No controller of any sort has commented that it's odd or unusual or unnecessary
 
A different topic but a similar remark from ATC. Last Thursday, I had departed a UNICOM airport in Tennessee and requested VFR Flight Following to my destination, which was in Alabama. He was busy and I thought I got walked on when I told him I would be climbing up to 5500 ft MSL so I wasn't sure how much of my transmission he had heard. I had given him my altitude earlier to verify my transponder altitude but as far as I knew he didn't know how high I was going to go. He was a Memphis ARTCC controller and was busy so I thought I'd just keep quiet.

Well, when I reached my cruising altitude of 5500 feet, I transmitted, "Memphis Center, Skyhawk 79599 level at five thousand five hundred."

And then he said, "79599, I'm watching your altitude so I know how high you are."

Hmmmm.....

So I replied with a simple "Five nine nine." As others posted above, don't argue with a controller.

Maybe it's because I have ADS-B out, and somehow I've missed that we can truncate our transmissions regarding altitude. Or maybe he was having a bad day. Or maybe someone (hope it wasn't me) had irritated him.

This one is tough. I have had several controllers ask me to report altitude changes and appreciate the info. Other times when I offer the alert that I am changing altitudes reply curtly that "altitude is my discretion." I think it is only the busy controllers around ORD that want and appreciate the altitude data, as they are dealing with a lot of traffic and want as much data without looking as possible. I know they appreciate having me on flight following, as they will give altitude and vector instructions to me in order to manage me in conjunction with their IFR arrivals. Much easier than making the big iron divert around me.

I suspect the lower volume controllers have plenty of time to watch your target on the screen and have no desire to hear our altitude changes.

Just some thoughts.

Larry
 
" I have had several controllers ask me to report altitude changes and appreciate the info. Other times when I offer the alert that I am changing altitudes reply curtly that "altitude is my discretion."

Same here.

"I think it is only the busy controllers around ORD that want and appreciate the altitude data, as they are dealing with a lot of traffic and want as much data without looking as possible. I know they appreciate having me on flight following, as they will give altitude and vector instructions to me in order to manage me in conjunction with their IFR arrivals. Much easier than making the big iron divert around me.

I suspect the lower volume controllers have plenty of time to watch your target on the screen and have no desire to hear our altitude changes.

Not sure of the reason for the different behavior but I've had the same experience you have...some controller tell me it's at my discretion and so I don't have to report changes...others accept the report.
 
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