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Anyone still building with Steam Gauges?

Considering an RV-14 build. I like Steam gauges in general over an EFIS. Are builders still taking this route or is this completely out of vogue?

-David
 
You'll love the airplane!

I don't know anyone that is but the question really comes to why would you at this point?

You'll kill the resale value ... not to mention ease of use ...

Have you flown a modern EFIS yet? Curious.
 
Considering an RV-14 build. I like Steam gauges in general over an EFIS. Are builders still taking this route or is this completely out of vogue?

-David

Hi David,

If you mean round gages (I like them too) there are fine examples of modern panels with uavionix/garmin/etc. round efis/ems which fit standard holes.
 
I'm with Vlad.
Build it the way you want with out the hassle of a vac attitude & DG, use a modern G-5 / AV-30 or similar round efis in place of the centre gauge.
No need to follow the big screen crowd...
 
The original poster can clarify but pretty sure, based on the wording of his post (steam....still....), that he is referring to old-school, mechanical round gauges. An RV-14 with only mechanical vacuum/gyro gauges would really be.....unique. ;)
 
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When I faced that choice in 2009, I was ready to go ‘old school’ to save a few dollars - until I did the math. Going modern glass was cheaper.
 
My guess is that there are advocates for both out there. You might have just stirred up another endless debate along the lines of the "to prime, or not to prime" discussions.

I'm building an RV-10 which will have no steam gauges. Three 10 inch screens and a backup G5. No vacuum pump, no gauges.
 
Yes to steam in the mix

Yes I am intending to put some round steam type gauges in my RV6A that will be used for day VFR. I am not putting in a vacuum system.

I prefer the appearance and functional simplicity of round dials with needles over a TV screen and I am not building the plane for resale, it is my personal money pit.

I do currently fly another airplane with a Dynon D180 and it has way more info on it than I need for flight and I mostly glance at airspeed, altitude, the slip ball and the rest of the time my eyes are outside. The graphical engine monitoring part is very good however and I like that aspect because it is continually checking numbers so I can be outside.

For the RV I am intending to put in a round mechanical airspeed, round mechanical altimeter, and a Garmin G5. Still undecided on engine monitoring but it will be a separate small unit like a Dynon D10 EMS or similar. I believe it is possible to get the best of both worlds with a simple hybrid panel that offers side benefits like redundancy and resilience without excessive cost.
 
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My recently completed -8 has a mix of instruments. I like the big 3.125” airspeed, altitude, and RoC. Using AFS 2500 for engine and also have an IFly GPS plus a GRT Mini. This mix suits me well for VFR. Build yours as you want not what is in style. It is your plane and you will be the pilot.
 
I'm a fan of the hybrid steam/efis setup. For some data it seems easier to get the 'big picture' at a glance with a round gauge (airspeed, alt) On the other hand, an EFIS has such a wealth of valuable info in such a small space: engine data, x-winds, OAT, TAS, AOA/stall and all the audible limit warnings like stall, canopy, overspeed, engine parameters etc, I'd hate to give up. the gauges also provide truly independent redundancy and used gauges are now almost free. The AV-30 is a good stand-alone backup since it needs no GPS or pitot/static input for AI data, just a 12v wire and there's a backup battery included.

IMG_1064.jpg
 
Combo

I hardly look at my airspeed on the EFIS. Prefer the round gauge.
 

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Ever hear of an OODA Loop? While it was conceived for use in a combat situation, the Observe-Orient-Decide-Act flow also applies to flying an airplane. Digital instruments are great in a multicrew environment where you've got someone to back each other up, but in GA VFR (especially down low in the pattern, like base-final), you don't need to know if you're at 71, 72, or 73 knots, you just need to know if the airspeed is at 1 o'clockish and need to add some smash, 4 o'clock and just right, or 8 o'clock and need to bleed off some energy.

The hybrid concept lets you see your energy or altitude quickly, combined with the information resources of a glass cockpit MFD. Best of both worlds.

FWIW, here's my panel evolution.
 
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Yes I am intending to put some round steam type gauges in my RV6A that will be used for day VFR. I am not putting in a vacuum system.

I prefer the appearance and functional simplicity of round dials with needles over a TV screen and I am not building the plane for resale, it is my personal money pit.

I do currently fly another airplane with a Dynon D180 and it has way more info on it than I need for flight and I mostly glance at airspeed, altitude, the slip ball and the rest of the time my eyes are outside. The graphical engine monitoring part is very good however and I like that aspect because it is continually checking numbers so I can be outside.

For the RV I am intending to put in a round mechanical airspeed, round mechanical altimeter, and a Garmin G5. Still undecided on engine monitoring but it will be a separate small unit like a Dynon D10 EMS or similar. I believe it is possible to get the best of both worlds with a simple hybrid panel that offers side benefits like redundancy and resilience without excessive cost.

I’d look hard at the AV30 vs the G5. Just installed the AV30 and it’s awesome.
 
I’d look hard at the AV30 vs the G5. Just installed the AV30 and it’s awesome.

How is its attitude solution? I've been hearing murmurings the AV30 attitude might not be as rock-solid as we might like...

When I first spoke with the "inventor" at OSH a few years ago and saw the first prototype of the instrument I was impressed. Especially for the retrofit market with certified airplanes already set up for round instruments.
 
How is its attitude solution? I've been hearing murmurings the AV30 attitude might not be as rock-solid as we might like...

When I first spoke with the "inventor" at OSH a few years ago and saw the first prototype of the instrument I was impressed. Especially for the retrofit market with certified airplanes already set up for round instruments.

Interesting, all I’m hearing about are problems with it’s heading solutions when installed as DG.
 
Appreciate the thoughts and replies. There’s a pilot on my prior field with an RV seven which won a best builder award for the plane at OSH a few years ago. It was all steam gauge paneled really quite beautiful.

I flew in behind G1000 for probably 150 hours. One of the earlier posters I think probably said it best that the Garmin G3X probably wins the race every day for cost and performance.

There’s something about round dials I enjoy flying. If I went with round gauges, I would still likely have an EFIS type display for the AI and for an HSI. Maybe Gi-275?

There’s just something about a six pack arrangement that I find enjoyable. Also it’s lower cost for an overall build. I’m gonna keep reading.
 
How is its attitude solution? I've been hearing murmurings the AV30 attitude might not be as rock-solid as we might like...

When I first spoke with the "inventor" at OSH a few years ago and saw the first prototype of the instrument I was impressed. Especially for the retrofit market with certified airplanes already set up for round instruments.

Mine has been solid so far. Barrel rolls , aileron rolls, it stays dialed in and never tumbled. Mine is just being used as an AI. I did hook up an rs232 wire from my Garmin 660 and it feeds it heading info. The AOA function is pretty slick too once you get it set up.
 
Nothing wrong with a nice six pack. The ladies will love it.

I would suggest modularizing your panel though. Make a large removable panel on each side, that you mount your steam gauges in. That way, if you (or a subsequent owner, if you sell it) want to change to glass panels instead, you can retrofit into the removable panel, rather than replace the entire panel. Do some research to see what size you'd need to mount some of the common glass setups in a panel, and make yours big enough for them. Chances are you'll need to make it even bigger to fit a six-pack of steam gauges.

Also: Scrounge used gauges. You could easily save $20K on your build by scrounging a six pack vs. installing two large glass screens and all the associated hardware.
 
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