iFly 740b with G5

Hello All, new builder here and have researched so much that it has created further confusion.

I really like the iFly 740b and know for a fact that it drives a TruTrak.

Adding to this I want a GPS175 with Dual G5's for the capability of GPS approaches.

First of all, will the G5 accept an iFly 740b signal?

My goal is tho have the G5 display the iFly 740b information for VFR lateral navigation purposes (NAV SOURCE 1)

Then my GPS175 is NAV SOURCE 2 (IFR operations)

I don't want wasted dual G5's that only read the data from a GPS175.

I know the other option is to have NAV1 as the iFLY and use with TRUTRAK (no G5 usage) but I'd like maximize use of G5's.

I don't want to have a situation which causes me to get an AERA 760 and start to go down the road of all Garmin products.

I really want my panel simple. The G5's are my PFD and my iFly is my moving map.

Thanks in advance for your input. Any ideas that fill this goal? I don't want a pfd/mfd with a bizillion wires and complex wire harness situation (like DYNON, G3X, etc, etc.)

I have dual G5's and my 740 does not display the data. My gtn650 drives the second G5, HSI and glide slope for lateral. Both drive the Trio Pro Pilot very well, but the 740 won't shoot the approach. We would all love to do this without the mess of wires.

Just keep in mind that if you don't use your new GPS 175 with a Garmin Aera 660 or 760, you will be missing out on the excellent integration provided by those units. The GPS 175, GNC 355, and GNX 375 are great navigators, but the displays are small compared to the Aera 760, and having all the flight plan and approach information displayed on the Aera 760, including procedure turns and holding patterns, is nothing short of amazing.

I fly with a GNX 375 and an Aera 760. I love the GNX 375, but the display is too small for easily viewing traffic, weather, and approach information. All of this information is sent from the GNX 375 to the Aera 760 where it is super easy to see and use.

The Aera 660/760 can also act as a navigator for a G5 autopilot system. Not only do they provide lateral flight plan and direct-to guidance information, but they also provide seamless vertical guidance for autopilot coupled VNAV descents from cruise altitude to pattern altitude.

Aera 660/760 with G5 autopilot system and Garmin navigator.



Aera 760 showing LPV approach with missed approach waypoint and holding pattern.



Aera 760 showing full LPV approach with procedure turn.



Aera 760 showing approach plate overlaid on moving map with actual navigation path coming from IFR navigator overlaid on the approach plate.



Sorry, I have no idea if an iFly will interface with a G5. I have flown with Garmin portables since 1993 and they just keep getting better!

Steve

Steve, Thanks for the input. I think this is the way to go.

I'm still confused about the Aera 760 and where it will connect. Will it connect directly into the G5 and become a sort of NAV 2 or will it all be a part of the GPS X75? My guess is without the GPS X75 it works as a navigation source but with the integration (shown above)?

My understanding is straight out of the box the GPS X75 will allow transfer of the Aera 760 flight plan...or if a flight plan is entered initially into the GPS X75 it can then be transfered to the Aera 760.

I know the G5 is now capable, from what I've found, to display multiple sources. Hard to find a clean and clear cut "this is how you set it up" dummies guide.

Dave

dmpatto said:

Steve, Thanks for the input. I think this is the way to go.

I'm still confused about the Aera 760 and where it will connect. Will it connect directly into the G5 and become a sort of NAV 2 or will it all be a part of the GPS X75? My guess is without the GPS X75 it works as a navigation source but with the integration (shown above)?

My understanding is straight out of the box the GPS X75 will allow transfer of the Aera 760 flight plan...or if a flight plan is entered initially into the GPS X75 it can then be transfered to the Aera 760.

I know the G5 is now capable, from what I've found, to display multiple sources. Hard to find a clean and clear cut "this is how you set it up" dummies guide.

Dave

Click to expand...

Hello Dave,

The system diagram I included above is a simplified version that doesn't show the RS-232 connection from the Aera 660/760 to the G5 unit(s). That connection is only used when you want to include the Aera 660/760 as a navigator for the G5 autopilot instead of just as a big display for the GPS 175, GNC 355, GNX 375, GTN 6XX/7XX, or GNS 4XXW/5XXW.

The Rev. 7 G5 Installation manual shows dual navigator examples for Aera plus GNC 255, Aera plus GNX 375 and Aera plus GTN 6XX/7XX, but doesn't show a dual navigator example for the Aera plus GPS 175.

You will follow the guidance on page 7-23 to install a GPS 175 in a G5 system, but instead of connecting the RS-232 (MapMX) out of the GPS 175 to the G5 unit(s), you will connect it to one of the 2 RS-232 ports on the Aera 660/760 and configure that Aera 660/760 RS-232 port for MapMX.

You will then connect one of the 2 RS-232 ports on the Aera 660/760 to the G5 unit(s) as shown on page 7-13 for the Aera plus GNX 375 dual navigator wiring diagram. As shown on that wiring diagram, you will use NMEA format for both the output of the Aera 660/760 and the input of the G5 unit(s).

This probably sounds more difficult than it is.

The Aera 660/760 supports both internal flight planning (which is used if the Aera is selected to be the primary navigator) and external flight planning (which is used when the IFR navigator is selected to be the primary navigator). With external flight planning, the Aera 660/760 always follows the flight plan, direct-to, SID, STAR, or approach being used on the IFR navigator. This selection (internal/external flight planning) is made on the Aera 660/760 flight plan page.

If your GPS 175 were to become unavailable, you just switch the Aera 660/760 to internal flight planning, and couple the G5 autopilot to the Aera 660/760, which is the GPS #1 navigator in the system.

Here is an example flight plan page. Just press the "FPL Source" button at the top to toggle between Internal and External flight planning.



Hope this makes sense.

Steve

Steve,

Makes sense if I look at it over and over again. LOL. I think once I have the equipment it will make more sense.

I've been doing some thinking and may go with the GNX 375. This way I get a GPS navigator and the ADS-B with the FIS-B WX and Traffic Data sent to my Aera 760. I think the cost is about the same as getting a GPS 175 and a separate Transponder with ADSB out and a separate "in" portable device. PLUS the X75 products push AHRS data (from what I"m reading) and now my portable Aera 760 becomes a sort of back-up attitude indicator if both G5 go out on me.

I'll sort out the autopilot upon installation and get much much more help as I proceed.

Last of all... the head unit for the Garmin Autopilot has a 507 and a 307 model... one looks like it doesn't have the heading bug but is way less expensive by $500?

Also, if I do not use the Garmin Autopilot, will the TruTrack play nice, or should I just spend a few bucks more and make it all Garmin?

dmpatto said:

I've been doing some thinking and may go with the GNX 375. This way I get a GPS navigator and the ADS-B with the FIS-B WX and Traffic Data sent to my Aera 760. I think the cost is about the same as getting a GPS 175 and a separate Transponder with ADSB out and a separate "in" portable device. PLUS the X75 products push AHRS data (from what I"m reading) and now my portable Aera 760 becomes a sort of back-up attitude indicator if both G5 go out on me.

Click to expand...

Agree. The GNX 375 is hard to beat and it provides traffic, weather, and attitude data to the Aera 660/760. The GNX 375 also has a Bluetooth wireless interface, so when I have a passenger in the back seat, I can clip an Aera 660 into a powered mount I have back there, and that unit can also have traffic, weather, and attitude from the GNX 375.

Visual approaches are also super easy to activate on the GNX 375 (just 2 button presses), and I like having glidepath reference information available - even when landing VFR.

Last of all... the head unit for the Garmin Autopilot has a 507 and a 307 model... one looks like it doesn't have the heading bug but is way less expensive by $500?

Click to expand...

Garmin doesn't actually sell the GMC 307 anymore since it was replaced by the GMC 507 which has more features. The lower cost GMC 305 is still available, but it doesn't have HDG/TRK and ALT SEL knobs, TRK button, autopilot audio output (like disconnect tones), and the TO/GA button input to activate missed approaches. For a G5 based system, the extra knobs, audio support, and TO/GA button input are really important. For a G3X touch installation, you can sort of get by with the GMC 305, but the GMC 507 is the gold standard autopilot interface and you will love having the dedicated HDG/TRK and ALT SEL knobs.

I started out with the GMC 305, and quickly switched to the GMC 307 when it became available. I upgraded to the GMC 507 when it became available since I vastly prefer steering the plane around in TRK mode instead of HDG mode. I pretty much couldn't care less where the nose of the plane is pointing (HDG), but care a lot about aircraft TRK. I only use HDG mode when being heading vectored by ATC. HDG mode is also my backup lateral mode in the unlikely event there is a GPS outage in an area that I am flying. This autopilot will still have HDG (heading) and ROL (roll) lateral modes, and PIT (pitch), VS (vertical speed), IAS (airspeed hold), and ALT hold modes available without GPS. You are in good hands if you lose GPS and need to ask ATC for a heading out of the GPS affected area. They might even turn off the jammer if you ask them to.

GMC 305


GMC 307 (adds HDG and ALT SEL knobs - no longer for sale)


GMC 507 (Adds TRK button, autopilot tone audio output, and TO/GA button discrete input.)

Also, if I do not use the Garmin Autopilot, will the TruTrack play nice, or should I just spend a few bucks more and make it all Garmin?

Click to expand...

It doesn't make much sense to use a TT autopilot with a G5 system since you lose the flight director command bar and flight director modes shown on the G5 except when using the Garmin autopilot. You would give up a LOT to use the TT. Compared to the GMC 507, the user interface is quite challenging.



If you are hand flying practice approaches, you can push the FD button on the GMC 507 (instead of the AP button), and hand fly the plane with the servos disengaged using the flight director command bar. The flight director is fully functional with all the flight director modes, but you are flying the plane instead of the servos. At any point should you want to turn the plane back over to the servos, just push the AP button and everything is all setup and there is a seamless transition.

The hollow flight director command bar is a reminder that the servos are disengaged and you are hand flying the plane using the flight director.



One of my neighbors is a retired 747/767 captain, and he says that the Garmin system and autopilot in my homebuilt is much nicer than what he was using. You will be blown away the first time you fly a fully coupled approach with this system.

Steve

The Garmin x75 navigators coupled to a G5 and Electronic flight book are amazing.
I have GNX375 and a G5 coupled to an ipad with Foreflight and I feel like “Skyking”

Steve... don't be annoyed, I'm getting close to understanding this a lot more, have faith...

So I am reading in the G5 user manual:
https://static.garmin.com/pumac/190-01112-12_A.pdf

"The G5 will only display data from the #1 navigation source. If the navigation source
is a GNS/GTN unit, both GPS and VLOC data can be displayed"

Further reading it states "Changing the navigation source (GPS, VOR, LOC, or VLOC):
Use the #1 external navigator to toggle between GPS and VOR/LOC source
types."

All from page 28 of the referenced document.

I think what this means is that a second source (be it another GPS, NAV/COM, or even the Aera 760) is that an actual toggle switch labled NAV 1 = GPSX75 and NAV 2 = Aera 760 would have to exist. The only reason the G5 will dislplay a GPS course and a VOR course indicator is because the GTN are GPS/NAV units but it's still considered NAV1 source 1 on my toggle switch.

So in your explanation I will fly with my toggle switch set to my 375 (Changing the navigation source (GPS, VOR, LOC, or VLOC):
Use the #1 external navigator to toggle between GPS and VOR/LOC source
types the Aera760 set to external FPL). Then if for some reason the 375 fails me, I can toggle to source 2 = Aera 760 and change the setting on the Aera 760 to 'internal flight plan'.

But I don't really have to do anything to the Autopilot, (no need to change the source) because the source is from G5 driving servos.

dmpatto said:

Steve... don't be annoyed, I'm getting close to understanding this a lot more, have faith...

So I am reading in the G5 user manual:
https://static.garmin.com/pumac/190-01112-12_A.pdf

"The G5 will only display data from the #1 navigation source. If the navigation source
is a GNS/GTN unit, both GPS and VLOC data can be displayed"

Further reading it states "Changing the navigation source (GPS, VOR, LOC, or VLOC):
Use the #1 external navigator to toggle between GPS and VOR/LOC source
types."

All from page 28 of the referenced document.

I think what this means is that a second source (be it another GPS, NAV/COM, or even the Aera 760) is that an actual toggle switch labled NAV 1 = GPSX75 and NAV 2 = Aera 760 would have to exist. The only reason the G5 will dislplay a GPS course and a VOR course indicator is because the GTN are GPS/NAV units but it's still considered NAV1 source 1 on my toggle switch.

So in your explanation I will fly with my toggle switch set to my 375 (Changing the navigation source (GPS, VOR, LOC, or VLOC):
Use the #1 external navigator to toggle between GPS and VOR/LOC source
types the Aera760 set to external FPL). Then if for some reason the 375 fails me, I can toggle to source 2 = Aera 760 and change the setting on the Aera 760 to 'internal flight plan'.

But I don't really have to do anything to the Autopilot, (no need to change the source) because the source is from G5 driving servos.

Click to expand...

Hello Dave,

No problem. Happy to help.

You found a really old Rev. A 2017 version of the G5 Pilot Guide before dual navigators were supported. You should download your manuals only from the Garmin website so you always have the latest version (which is now J).
https://support.garmin.com/en-US/?partNumber=010-01485-00&tab=manuals

When you configure your G5 system for dual navigators and push in on the knob, you will see a choice for navigation "Source". This can be toggled between GPS1 and GPS2 when you have an Aera 760 (GPS1) and a GPS 175 (GPS2) navigator.



The VOR/LOC choices don't apply to your system (and won't be visible) since you don't have navigator like a GTN 650 that has both GPS and NAV receivers. You "only" have 2 GPS navigators.

Steve

It looks amazing. So are you not using Garmin Pilot? If not, then I assume you update GPS175 via SD Card using a PC/MAC? I'm going to use Garmin Pilot and it seems to still be the least expensive option still to update manually using SD card. Transfers the flight plan free but the database, nope. The GPS175 will still require a $1500 FlightStream 510 card just to update databases wirelessly. Garmin has sweet integration and avionics, but gee whizzz, get you with each option. Is $1500 worth the transfer for the life of the device plus the $499 plus database update annually? But I did take up this hobby knowing it costs

Steve,

Thanks again for saving me. Ok, this is great news. The hard part is just wiring it all up and getting it communicating properly. Of course, I'll be around other builders and avionics folks who've done this before (I hope).

But this is great news.

Thanks

update GPS via MAC. Take out SD card from GPS and load onto MAC. Update Card with Garmin subscription then put back into GPS - easy.

I am using foreflight mostly because it is what I am familiar with.

dmpatto said:

It looks amazing. So are you not using Garmin Pilot? If not, then I assume you update GPS175 via SD Card using a PC/MAC? I'm going to use Garmin Pilot and it seems to still be the least expensive option still to update manually using SD card. Transfers the flight plan free but the database, nope. The GPS175 will still require a $1500 FlightStream 510 card just to update databases wirelessly. Garmin has sweet integration and avionics, but gee whizzz, get you with each option. Is $1500 worth the transfer for the life of the device plus the $499 plus database update annually? But I did take up this hobby knowing it costs

Click to expand...

Hi Dave,

No, I have never found a reason to want to use an iPad, and certainly wouldn't fly with one.

I can update the database card for my GNX 375 in no time on my Win10 laptop. The SD card is a cheap, fast, reliable, and easy way to keep my GNX 375 databases and software up to date. You do not have to leave the database SD card in these newer navigators, so you can take it back home with you to have handy when a database update becomes available.

In case you haven't found this yet, here is a link to Garmin's software download page for GTN 6XX/7XX, GPS 175, GNC 355, and GNX 375. Garmin experimental aircraft customers can install their own software updates for these IFR navigators for free if they are comfortable doing so.

For database updates for your GPS 175, a lot of U.S. EAB customers just update the U.S. navigation database for $299/yr instead of paying the bundle price of $499/yr for navigation, terrain, obstacles and SafeTaxi. A current navigation database is all you need to fly IFR with your GPS 175.

Many of use use other displays (like the Aera 760) for charts, terrain and obstacle warnings, SafeTaxi, etc, so there is little reason to spend the extra money to keep the IFR navigator updated with these additional databases.

Here is a link to the Aviation Database and Bundle Pricing web page so you can look at all the database options for the GPS 175.

Steve

Steve.

Thanks for that information. I can save a few bucks not fully updating the Navigator and just using the AERA for safe taxi, etc.

Bummer, the Software updates for the GPS 175 are only supported by Windows.

The Database updates are supported by a MAC downloader. I'm going to send Garmin Experimental an email asking about MAC support for the Software updates.

Good, no need for an expensive FlightStream Card. Carry two SD Cards, one for database, one for software, and use those.