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  #11  
Old 10-16-2017, 09:52 PM
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rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Christopher Murphy View Post
Bob and Charlie

I thought the same thing. I think its been wrong forever and when the diode failed it energized the coil..

I put it on as directed by the instructions in the packet it came in an ive always thought that was wrong..

Thanks
Cm
The instructions specify installing it on the "S" terminal.
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  #12  
Old 10-17-2017, 07:25 AM
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Default Aeroelectric Connection

There's some good information at the Aeroelectric Connection.
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  #13  
Old 10-17-2017, 09:15 AM
Christopher Murphy Christopher Murphy is offline
 
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Default I think I understand the diode better

So basically the I term completes the circuit to ground..so putting the the banded end of the diode on the terminal is the same as grounding it. Alot of videos and articles show the diode going directly to ground on the frame..correct? Im thinking that would be better because as in my case that diode failed and allowed the I term to hold voltage on the s term keeping the starter energized.


Am I correct about this?
Cm

Cm
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  #14  
Old 10-17-2017, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Christopher Murphy View Post
So basically the I term completes the circuit to ground..so putting the the banded end of the diode on the terminal is the same as grounding it. Alot of videos and articles show the diode going directly to ground on the frame..correct? Im thinking that would be better because as in my case that diode failed and allowed the I term to hold voltage on the s term keeping the starter energized.


Am I correct about this?
Cm

Cm
No. The "I" Terminal is energized positive when the solenoid engages. Putting the diode here to ground would basically do nothing, unless you put it in backwards, then it would blow itself up in quick order, or in your case taking a bit of time to fail as you connected it.
The "I" Terminal is like a second lower current pole to the solenoid. If you tear one apart you will see a copper strap connected to the "I" terminal such that when the solenoid pulls in, the strap makes the connection.
The diode is there on the "S" terminal as a rudimentary "filter". The starter and solenoid can fly back "dirty" spikes of power when their coils collapse. The diode shunts spikes to ground to protect the Bus power.
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Last edited by JonJay : 10-17-2017 at 10:19 AM.
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  #15  
Old 10-17-2017, 01:39 PM
Christopher Murphy Christopher Murphy is offline
 
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Default Failure to cummicate

I guess I am not being clear..the diode was installed exactly per the instructions for the 4 pole solenoid.
The diode was from the S term to the I term.

I understand the purpose of the diode and the way the solenoid works.. my point is..basically the diode became a wire connecting the S term and the I term. When I turned the start switch the starter engaged. When i released the switch the starter remained engaged. If the diode had been on the S term to a frame ground this would not have happened. So why connect it from the S term to the I term..? If it wete a 3 pole solenoid it would go to ground..

Cm
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  #16  
Old 10-17-2017, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Christopher Murphy View Post
I guess I am not being clear..the diode was installed exactly per the instructions for the 4 pole solenoid.
The diode was from the S term to the I term.

I understand the purpose of the diode and the way the solenoid works.. my point is..basically the diode became a wire connecting the S term and the I term. When I turned the start switch the starter engaged. When i released the switch the starter remained engaged. If the diode had been on the S term to a frame ground this would not have happened. So why connect it from the S term to the I term..? If it wete a 3 pole solenoid it would go to ground..

Cm
You must have a wiring diagram for a different application, or a non-standard solenoid. Vans wiring diagram, and those in the previous links show it correctly.
Take a pic of the wiring diagram or instructions you are referencing. Maybe we can figure out what is amiss.
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Last edited by JonJay : 10-17-2017 at 04:00 PM.
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  #17  
Old 10-18-2017, 08:37 AM
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rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Christopher Murphy View Post
I guess I am not being clear..the diode was installed exactly per the instructions for the 4 pole solenoid.
The diode was from the S term to the I term.

I understand the purpose of the diode and the way the solenoid works.. my point is..basically the diode became a wire connecting the S term and the I term. When I turned the start switch the starter engaged. When i released the switch the starter remained engaged. If the diode had been on the S term to a frame ground this would not have happened. So why connect it from the S term to the I term..? If it wete a 3 pole solenoid it would go to ground..

Cm
I suspect you are using parts sourced from Van's but instruction documents sourced from somewhere else (aeroelectric connection?)

It sounds like you don't understand how the solenoid works. There are two types that have 2 small studs. On one, each stud is the opposite end of the activation coil. On the other type, the S stud is one end of the activation coil (the other end is tied to the mounting foot for a ground path), and the I stud is a second switched output like Jon mentioned. The solenoid sold by Van's as a start solenoid is the second type.
If you want to learn more detail of the operating specifics and internal configuration read through the discussion/debate in THIS THREAD
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Last edited by rvbuilder2002 : 10-18-2017 at 08:40 AM.
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  #18  
Old 10-18-2017, 12:44 PM
Christopher Murphy Christopher Murphy is offline
 
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Default I know how it works...i guess im not very clear about my question

Thanks for all the imput...

Cm
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  #19  
Old 10-18-2017, 01:48 PM
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rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Christopher Murphy View Post
So basically the I term completes the circuit to ground..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Christopher Murphy View Post
I guess I am not being clear..the diode was installed exactly per the instructions for the 4 pole solenoid.
The diode was from the S term to the I term.
Ok, but based on your previous posts it seems you don't understand how it works. We are all just trying to help....

I am not aware of any document that shows the diode connected between the S and I terminals for the type of start solenoid that Van's sells.
Here is one (from the old thread I previously linked you to) that clearly shows diodes connected from the terminals to ground. The standard install using Vans plans does not install a diode on the I terminal (it is not necessary). There is only one on the S terminal.

"You also wrote that the I terminal completes the circuit to ground."
Only on the type of solenoid where the two terminals are connected to each end of the activation coil, and you obviously don't have that type because if you did, the terminals would not be labeled I and S.
It is not the solenoid type we typically use for the start circuit on RV's. We use the second type mentioned in my previous post and like the diagram linked to in this post.
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  #20  
Old 10-18-2017, 09:08 PM
lr172 lr172 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonJay View Post
No. The "I" Terminal is energized positive when the solenoid engages. Putting the diode here to ground would basically do nothing, unless you put it in backwards, then it would blow itself up in quick order, or in your case taking a bit of time to fail as you connected it.
The "I" Terminal is like a second lower current pole to the solenoid. If you tear one apart you will see a copper strap connected to the "I" terminal such that when the solenoid pulls in, the strap makes the connection.
The diode is there on the "S" terminal as a rudimentary "filter". The starter and solenoid can fly back "dirty" spikes of power when their coils colthlapse. The diode shunts spikes to ground to protect the Bus power.
The diode does not protect the buss, it protects the contacts in the relay/contactor. Without the diode, the collapsing field will jump the contacts to dissipate. This is how your sparkplugs fire BTW and they diode is acting like the grounded P lead. This jumping of the contacts causes arcing and pitting. Also, it does not really shunt the energy to ground, it simply creates a path (same one that the contacts providerd when closed) for the energy to flow so it doesn't arc.
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Last edited by lr172 : 10-18-2017 at 09:23 PM.
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