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Tearing Down a Hangar

DonFromTX

Well Known Member
I got word this morning (second handed) that my airport is going to tear our hangars down for some new project. We own our hangars, but lease yearly the ground from the airport.
I guess they can do that, but do the tenants have any rights or voice at all? There are no other hangars avaialble on the airport.
 
Can they be disassembled, and moved elsewhere?

Is there other *land* on the airport where you can move it, or where you could build another hangar? Maybe if so, get the least written as 30 years instead of yearly?
 
Shouldn't you ask the airport manager/board, instead of assuming that the rumor mill has accurate and complete information? I would...
 
Your ground lease ought to be in writing. What does it say?

And they'll have to pay you the value of the hangars, I believe.

Dave
 
Are they the old Port-a-Port hangars?

If so I bet the original lease classified them as portable structures and can get you to remove them upon sufficient notice.

They did originally come with a trailer hitch at one end..:) Shown in this pic -

Falconerdscqf.jpg
 
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Don. I hope this just turns out to be rumor. Who owns the land?
That will make a big difference on your path. Do you have a copy of the lease you signed? Ground leases are written to protect the land owner, not the tenant. In fact, this is true of most leases. You might have protections under State Law but that also might depend on who owns the ground.
 
Am I spoiled, or is a yearly lease rather unusual? Mine is for 20 yrs.

Was this project in the works over the last few years? Such a major project would be very difficult if not impossible to keep under wraps at my airport. Seems to be rather underhanded by your airport commission if this comes out of the blue. Any possible defense via non-disclosure?
 
Shouldn't you ask the airport manager/board, instead of assuming that the rumor mill has accurate and complete information? I would...

This is the only viable path at this point....no point in speculating on unsubstantiated info...or asking for legal advise on an internet forum. ;)

Don, I hope this is not as dire as you are thinking at this point and you can achieve a satisfactory outcome.
 
Hangar LandLease

Talk to the Aviation Dept at TxDOT. They may have an answer for you and may be able to influence the airport.
 
I guess I should have made more complete comments. I was NOT looking for legal advice from the forum, only experiences of others that might have had the same experience.
Our airport is the worst I have ever seen in their attitude towards plane owners and pilots. A recent closing (for several months) of the airport was accomplished by putting a notice on the hangars the day before the closing. Most of them blew off! Getting a straight answer from the city who owns it or the airport manager has long ago been discarded as not only a futile drill, but filled with misinformation as well.
Some unexpected information has been from AOPA that we may be responsible for removing the building and concrete floor even! Our leases are for 12 months, and renewed every year. That has caused the hangars to be in a less attractive state, who wants to paint one with that short life. We are looking forward to TXDOT and FAA feelings about this. The hangars often sell, value seems to be $15,000 to $20,000 (I paid $17k for mine back in 2011). That don't bother me too much, I have had the use of mine long enough that monthly rental amounts would zero it out in another two years. Where to move to is the big issue.
 
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I just came from a meeting I had requested with the airport manager, newly appointed. The teardown of the hangars is definitely on the agenda, but they would intend to pay us for our hangars and provide some new hangar facilities so we would not leave the area. New plans are to have a monthly meeting with us in attendance if we want, of the airport board! Things are looking up!
Money is the holdup, TexDOT and other funding sources are being sought, since our hangars are in the airport restricted area that the FAA wants cleared of hangars.
 
I guess I should have made more complete comments. I was NOT looking for legal advice from the forum, only experiences of others that might have had the same experience.
Our airport is the worst I have ever seen in their attitude towards plane owners and pilots. A recent closing (for several months) of the airport was accomplished by putting a notice on the hangars the day before the closing. Most of them blew off! Getting a straight answer from the city who owns it or the airport manager has long ago been discarded as not only a futile drill, but filled with misinformation as well.
Some unexpected information has been from AOPA that we may be responsible for removing the building and concrete floor even! Our leases are for 12 months, and renewed every year. That has caused the hangars to be in a less attractive state, who wants to paint one with that short life. We are looking forward to TXDOT and FAA feelings about this. The hangars often sell, value seems to be $15,000 to $20,000 (I paid $17k for mine back in 2011). That don't bother me too much, I have had the use of mine long enough that monthly rental amounts would zero it out in another two years. Where to move to is the big issue.

We actually went through something very, very similar...I'll say this. Get a good, knowledgable real estate attorney and have him/her review it in detail. In our case we indeed had to put the property "back into the shape it was in before the hangars" (which included removal of the concrete floors). It was painful, but a year later we all got checks from the original landowner that covered our teardown and moving costs (not so much the core hangar). Took a long time working through administrative judges, courts and finally our state Appelate and Supreme court, but in the end it all worked out. There are many experts here, but nothing replaces good expert legal counsel with issues like this. Just make sure they are well versed in real estate dealings....

Cheers,
Stein
 
I just came from a meeting I had requested with the airport manager, newly appointed. The teardown of the hangars is definitely on the agenda, but they would intend to pay us for our hangars and provide some new hangar facilities so we would not leave the area.

At one time I was spending 20 hours a week on airport affairs...call it temporary insanity. I did learn a few things, and 08A is still on the map.

Best I know, every airport sponsor is required to name a consulting engineering firm in order to qualify for Federal money. Silly pilots may see them as being on the enemy team, but the reality is you want to make them your best friends.

They're every bit as interested in planning and project management as they are in actual engineering design; it generally pays a percentage of the project value. In the case of real or personal property acquisition involving Fed money, they also get paid for handling the required multiple appraisals, negotiations, surveys, etc. So, it is much better for them to recommend a buyout and rebuild (which they will cheerfully handle), as compared to condemning and throwing you out (the city attorney's job). This particularly true since it became allowable to use AIP money to build new hangar space about 12 years ago.

Short term goal? Make friends quick, because they recommend what the airport sponsor should do. They also help decide how much you get paid for what you have, and recommend, design, and build what you get in the future.

Your long term goal is to guide them toward airport projects you want, projects that also make money for them. They will sway the sponsors for you when it is in their interest. Be careful around that two-edged sword.

I don't know the current Fed requirement, but 15 years ago the building restriction line for a new runway at our airport was 500 ft from the centerline. A glance at an overhead of T65 says yes, your old hangars are a problem.
 
At my airport we have some Port-a-Ports that are on leased land. Lease expires in 2044, but we own our hangars. One guy got sideways with the airport and hauled his right out.

IMG_3002-XL.jpg
 
Master Plan

Ths airport is T65, Weslaco Texas. You can blow up the photo in this link, the hangars in question are on the West side of the runway, lower left position of the airport property.

Easy to see why they want to remove the hangars to allow the airport to attract small business jets in the C-II and D-II categories.

This paragraph from the Airport Master Plan says it all -

Analysis in the previous section
indicated that Runway 13-31 should be
planned to accommodate aircraft in
ARC C-II and D-II. In order to meet
design criteria for ARC C-II and D-II
aircraft, the cleared and graded RSA
would need to be 500 feet wide
(centered on the runway) and extend
1,000 feet beyond each runway end.
The OFA would require a cleared area
800 feet on each side of the runway
centerline, extending 1,000 feet beyond
each runway end.


Your hangars are in the OFA (Object Free Area) and are in the way of attracting those high paying bigger aircraft...:)

www.weslacotx.gov/PDF/Weslaco_MP.pdf

Just read Dan H's previous comment and it is spot on.
 
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I just went through this in May of this year. I had to relocate my hanger to a new location at the airport all at my expense. It cost me a little north of $50,000 to pour new concrete and move my building. The airport was federaly funded and my hanger after the airport redesigned was in The way. The feds wouldnt give the town any more money till my hanger was moved and the town didn't have the money to move it or could use the feds money so I had 2 choices move it to a new area or off the airport.
I could of gotten a lawyer and probably would of spent the 50k on a lawyer. I called the Aopa like someone on here mentioned but they said they couldn't help with these matters.
 
Wow Gil, thanks for that link! The runway has already been widened and lengthened, now they are working on the related stuff.

Easy to see why they want to remove the hangars to allow the airport to attract small business jets in the C-II and D-II categories.

This paragraph from the Airport Master Plan says it all -

Analysis in the previous section
indicated that Runway 13-31 should be
planned to accommodate aircraft in
ARC C-II and D-II. In order to meet
design criteria for ARC C-II and D-II
aircraft, the cleared and graded RSA
would need to be 500 feet wide
(centered on the runway) and extend
1,000 feet beyond each runway end.
The OFA would require a cleared area
800 feet on each side of the runway
centerline, extending 1,000 feet beyond
each runway end.


Your hangars are in the OFA (Object Free Area) and are in the way of attracting those high paying bigger aircraft...:)

www.weslacotx.gov/PDF/Weslaco_MP.pdf

Just read Dan H's previous comment and it is spot on.
 
Thank you for the Heads up on the activity at T65

Don,

Thank you for the heads up on the activity at T65. I own a west side hangar and today I received a draft of the new airport rules. I have not read it yet but since, I never saw a copy of the old rules, I figured the airport management was up to something. I lost my job in the Valley so I am living in Fort Worth but rent my hangar out. I kept the hangar since I was hoping to move back to the Valley.

Looking at the airport plan some of the west side hangar may be spared since they are behind the building restriction line, have they chosen which hangers to remove or are all west side hangars to be destroyed?

P-63-11bn-copie.jpg

picture of the hangers behind my hangar at t65.
Paul
 
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Your photo is obsolete, here is an updated one. I will call you later today. For other readers, this is the ultimate homebuilt, a French WWII bomber built from scratch!
jjlpit.jpg
[/IMG]
Don,

Thank you for the heads up on the activity at T65. I own a west side hangar and today I received a draft of the new airport rules. I have not read it yet but since, I never saw a copy of the old rules, I figured the airport management was up to something. I lost my job in the Valley so I am living in Fort Worth but rent my hangar out. I kept the hangar since I was hoping to move back to the Valley.

Looking at the airport plan some of the west side hangar may be spared since they are behind the building restriction line, have they chosen which hangers to remove or are all west side hangars to be destroyed?

P-63-11bn-copie.jpg

picture of the hangers behind my hangar at t65.
Paul
 
Notice of hangar inspections.

Please see below, Notice of hangar inspections. I have owned this hangar for 14 years and have never had the airport require a hangar inspection. Given the timing of this notice in relation to the Airport’s ongoing effort to demolish the West side hangars, it is clear this is part of a campaign of harassment in order to take the West side hangers. I hope the other West side owners are not going to roll over and let the airport take their hangars.

The biggest hurdle is the insurance, “Evidence of proper and sufficient insurance documentation, with Airport assigned on policy.”



MID VALLEY AIRPORT HANGAR INSPECTION CHECKLIST

Use as a residency.
A stored aircraft must be airworthy, properly registered to the hangar
owner, and properly insured.
If non-airworthy, aircraft must show significant signs of progress.
No more than one vehicle in addition to the aircraft is to be stored in a
single hangar. Golf cart does not apply.
No storage of recreational vehicles (i.e. boats, motorhomes, trailers or
campers).
Storage of other items will not impede aircraft ingress and egress.
Exit path is clear of obstructions.
Fire extinguisher that is not expired and is accessible.
Combustible material, if applicable, is stored properly and not stock piled
in excess.
No more than the permitted amount of flammable liquids stored.
Extensions cords must not be used as a permanent source of wiring.
Junction boxes must be covered and maintained properly.
No spraying, painting or dipping utilizing flammable liquids with proper
written notice.
Hangar number is properly identified.
Hangar doors are in proper working condition and have not been
altered/modified to affect functionality.
Non-operating doors must be posted in the exterior "THIS DOOR
BLOCKED."
Evidence of proper and sufficient insurance documentation, with Airport
assigned on policy.
Proper water and electrical meters installed.
Filed sub-lease agreements with Airport Management.
 
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MID VALLEY AIRPORT HANGAR INSPECTION CHECKLIST
...
For what it's worth, most if not all of these clauses have been standard on any hangar i've ever rented. I haven't seen the blanket Insurance policy we have for the hangar I now own (we have one policy that covers three buildings in our complex), I would not be surprised to find the airport is a named insured.

I've never had an inspection to confirm that my use of the space conforms to any of these requirements though. I know there are hangars at my airport that are in serious violation, it seems there's a small number of people who have realized that hangars are cheaper than storage lockers, and use them for everything from boats to race car workshops.
 
It pi$$es me off to see the hangars at my airport that have no plane in them and are just large storage lockers. On the other hand, we have quite a few empty hangars that are reasonable to rent or purchase.

My biggest problem with the "rules" is why does the airport care what I have in my hangar as long as I have a plane in it? New, old, certified, registered, project, or hangar queen. Even if I have a hangar large enough for two planes, I should not be forced to share my hangar.

My opinion may be different if there was a shortage of hangars at my airport. Im sure it would be hard to have to park on the tarmac and see a guy pull his boat out of a hangar with no plane in it.
 
Other than the insurance requirement which will cost more per year than the hangar rents for after paying property taxes and airport land lease cost, these inspection rules are not to unreasonable. Most of These hangars are 45 to 50 years old and this is the first airport hangar inspection that I have heard of at this airport. The inspection is most likely a convenient excuse to get the code enforcement people in the hangars and take pictures and start writing up code infractions, so that the only economic option is to give the hangar back to the airport. Why would someone spend more than a few hundred dollars to maintain something that the government has announced they intend to take from you in the next year or two?
 
Hangar inspection

I am adding this just for reference.
Our airport CCR Concord Buchanan has gone through a number of issues over the last few years from actively pursuing redevelopment and hangar rules so ornery we needed involvement of AOPA and other legal threats to come to terms with current management.
Currently, an annual hangar inspection is conducted and the rules are similar to what YAK53 posted.
For the most part, it appears to be an effort to ensure that hangars are primarily used for aircraft. At this point I can tolerate their efforts as it has greatly affected the availability of hangars on the field. Too many hangars were storage dumps for anything from cars and boats to outright junk without any connection to aviation use.

Owning a hangar on a public airport is a very poor investment and should rather be viewed as a temporarily controlled expense. Port-A-Port hangars are even worse as these can be made to move in favor of more lucrative executive hangars or airport facilities.
 
Port-A-Port hangars are even worse as these can be made to move in favor of more lucrative executive hangars or airport facilities.

Port-A-Port has built more than the average POS hangar. We own a Port-A-Port with an overhead hydraulic door and there is no way to move just one hangar as they all share a common wall and roof with the next-door neighbors hangars.

~Marc
 
Port-A-Port has built more than the average POS hangar. We own a Port-A-Port with an overhead hydraulic door and there is no way to move just one hangar as they all share a common wall and roof with the next-door neighbors hangars.
~Marc

Whoever installed your Port-A-Port hangar made this mod. Port-A-Port hangars are typically totally independent of one another. We've moved several and this has never been an issue.
 
And they'll have to pay you the value of the hangars, I believe.

Dave

We are getting evicted on Good Friday.

On 3/22 the West Side hangar owners were sent eviction letters. I got mine on 2/26.

We have until Good Friday 3/30 to remove all our stuff from the hangars and give our keys to airport manager.

If we try to enter our hangars after Good Friday 3/30 we will be arrested for trespassing.

The city is not offering to give us a dime for our hangars they are just taking then.

Paul
 
This would be an excellent time to discuss the matter with counsel, if you've not done so already. At the very least, an injunction may be available to give a more appropriate timeframe, and there may be a Fifth Amendment (right to compensation, not the better-known self-incrimination part) remedy as well. Heck, even if it's not compensable, just determining that question could buy you enough time to get things moved.
 
Feeling the pain...

We are currently going through similar issues at our "happy place", and I am serving on a small group representing the pilots (approx 70 planes on field). Our airport owner, whom has been completely out of the picture for the last 10 years decided to throw out leases ( never had formal leases), and start dictating the can-can't do policies. The airport needs a lot of TLC, which he has neglected over the last decade, and now, along with fairly "standard"restrictive leases, we have had 2 rate increases in the last 4 months. The owner is not responding well to our push-back and questions raised, and long term tenants are leaving like snow birds headed to Fla. I believe many of these leases have great similarity, and are just "googled up" and imposed, never the less, it can cause one to loose sleep when putting pen to paper. We too have a few rented hangars with boats and 4 wheeled RV's, but those guys have had/will have planes. We did have a guy start a cabinet shop, but he was shamed into leaving. For the most part, we are all plane a loving group trying to get along with a non-involved airport owner...keeping our hopes up for us and others feeling the same pain...looking to get our Happy Place back to normal .
 
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