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RV-8 QB fuselage incorrect hardware

chopperchops

Active Member
I am building a very slow QB RV-8 (2010 QB wings and fuselage). After having to replace the lower right longeron and weldment (due to a drilling error during gear alignment), I was researching the rivet lengths etc for reassembly, when I noticed something. DWG 67 shows four bolts going through the lower engine mounts and the lower longerons. I didn’t recall removing bolts when I removed the right lower longeron, so I did a sanity check and had a look at the left side.
Both sides were fitted with AN470AD4 rivets instead of the AN3 bolts! I contacted the mothership, and they confirmed I should have bolts there, and that they had not heard about this issue before.
Short story long, I just wanted to get this out there as a potential issue on other RV-8 QB fuselages, please have a look. You may get a small amount of vomit in your mouth when you see the deriveting involved to correct this issue!
 

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Good catch. I remembered I had to drill out these holes with #30 drill bits in the step to fit the forward fuselage section
 
Can o' worms

Gonna open up a can of worms here but here goes.

Was the factory head side dimpled/countersunk (i.e. AN426s installed)? If so, the resulting strength will be compromised as the hole for a AN3 bolt won't remove the aforementioned. If the QB was bought from Vans proper, they owe you (at a minimum an approval of) a solution; in my opinion.

If I were in your situation and it were solely up to me to rectify this, I'd probably explore a Hi-lok solution. The shear application fasteners come with reduced head sizes relative to the fastener diameters. This would be the least amount of metal rework that I can imagine. You will break with "acceptable practices" because the fastener will be installed head down. That wouldn't bother me in the least here. Hi-loks are a great product and the collars are easily inspected/witnessed.

A quick calculation of load in bearing of the fasteners versus structure should convince you the proper safety margins have been maintained. Best of luck. Keep us informed.
 
It is easy to drill out the rivets and drill each hole with the #12 drill. That should open up the hole for the an3 fastener. This is sequence of assembly if a person builds the fuselage from the standard kit.
Drill out each rivet at a time and replace it with the an3 bolt before moving on to the next rivet. There are some chips but that should be minimal
 
It is easy to drill out the rivets and drill each hole with the #12 drill. That should open up the hole for the an3 fastener. This is sequence of assembly if a person builds the fuselage from the standard kit.
Drill out each rivet at a time and replace it with the an3 bolt before moving on to the next rivet. There are some chips but that should be minimal

Guess I should have been clear. I was assuming those were #4 rivets which I based my (probably not needed) recommendation. If the QBers installed 3s here, their error has potentially higher consequences. If the holes were prepped for flush 4s, I had a chance of being helpful; My typical, non-observant self.
 
AN470’s

The Rivets installed were AN470AD4’s, so no issue with countersinking.
It is easy to drill out the rivets and drill #12 holes, the pain is deriveting the lower skin to access the other side. I had it done in a couple of hours, but mine is in an air conditioned workshop in a cradle, unpainted.
 
That’s about as bad as it gets. You can’t get to the underside of the longeron with the bottom skin on. It takes a borescope to see that area. I hope that Hi-Lock fix works for you.
 
Interesting

I’m building a Rocket; derived from an RV-4 as I’d bet the 8 is. Everything through the steel EM/FW gusset is a steel fastener, countersunk through the skin. Trying to conceptualize the related construction. Sounds like your life is gonna suck due to this oversight.
 
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There is a possible less difficult way to get to the lower longeron. You need to drill out the bottom panels (F-851-R and L). The right side is marked by the red outline. You may have to drill from the sideskin too. But the panel is small enough that you don't have to remove the entire bottom skin. You may need to drill out the exhaust ramp too. There aren't that many rivets really.

Once the forward panels are drilled out, you get a straight shot to the rivets and it should be easy then to drill them out and replace them with the bolts.

If you can flip the fuselage upside down, the job should go much faster. When I riveted the bottom skin, I also flip it upside down
 

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I drilled along the longeron line, and took out the rivets along the firewall and gear leg well. I rolled the fuse to put the side I was working on at the top. Didn’t take too long to drill out the rivets and install the bolts. Just need to nail it all back together now.
 

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My -8 has rivets also

After reading the post by Rob Chopin, I went to the hangar to check and discovered that I also have rivets where bolts should be. Rob's QB kit was delivered sometime in 2010. Guess what--mine was also delivered in 2010. I might suggest that other RV-8 QB builders/owners may want to check for this issue--especially if your kit was delivered in 2010. Today, I corrected the issue for the right side of the forward longeron assembly. Per Van's suggestion, I used a uni-bit to cut a 3/4" hole in the firewall for access to the inside of the floor. Starting with the aft most rivet, I drilled it out, upsized the hole and installed a bolt which I secured with a washer/nut from the bottom side. I did a repeat of this for then next three rivets. I'll put a plug in the firewall hole and seal with fire barrier. The left side will be a bit more involved--I'll have to work around wires, fuel lines etc. I will post a more detailed account on my kit-log web site in a few days. Attached are a couple of pics of the repair. Thank-you Rob for bringing out this issue. Stay safe out there!
 

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Another data point - I just checked my Feb 2010 delivered QB fuselage - it also has the incorrect rivets, not bolts. I wonder how many are flying..
 
+1 but more questions

QB delivered in 2009, rivets instead of bolts.

Per Van's suggestion

@skyking902201: i like the way you did the replacement, but i am missing the part where Van´s suggested it. I doublechecked the SB´s and SL´s, i re-read this thread and used the search function but couldn´t find anything related to this issued by the Mothership. I am certainly missing something here….could you be so kind and compromise your source of information, please?

Has anyone contacted Van´s with this issue already and received an official statement from about this?
If so, please share it with us to bring light in the darkness and prevent Van´s tech support from answering the same question numerous times.

Shouldn´t there a SB or SL coming out if this is of any importance??

And just in case it isn´t important, shouldn´t be there something like an "all-clear" call?

Maybe Van´s could step in here directly??

Hope to get the answers i am looking for, meanwhile preparing all the tools to go through the firewall (and a Email to Van´s).....

cheers!!
 
I think each of you guy should contact Vans support to notify this issue so they know about this. At the least, this should prompt Vans QC to inspect this are of the QB kits as they arrive from the Philippines. This reminds me of the missing bolts at the center section of the quick build kits.
 
2011 QB has bolts installed

Verified my 2011 RV8 quickbuild fuselage came with bolts installed.

-Greg
 
Rivets to bolts

QB delivered in 2009, rivets instead of bolts.


@skyking902201: i like the way you did the replacement, but i am missing the part where Van´s suggested it. I doublechecked the SB´s and SL´s, i re-read this thread and used the search function but couldn´t find anything related to this issued by the Mothership. I am certainly missing something here….could you be so kind and compromise your source of information, please?

Upon reading Rob's post and verifying that I had rivets instead of bolts, I contacted Van's. It was their suggestion to drill thru the firewall for access. They also indicated that engineering was investigating the use of alternate fasteners that could be installed blind--I have not heard anything further. Attached is a pic of the stuff I am dealing with on the left side. 2 rivets replaced and 2 to go--very slow progress working around wires and fuel lines.
 

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QB delivered in 2009, rivets instead of bolts.



@skyking902201: i like the way you did the replacement, but i am missing the part where Van´s suggested it. I doublechecked the SB´s and SL´s, i re-read this thread and used the search function but couldn´t find anything related to this issued by the Mothership. I am certainly missing something here….could you be so kind and compromise your source of information, please?

Has anyone contacted Van´s with this issue already and received an official statement from about this?
If so, please share it with us to bring light in the darkness and prevent Van´s tech support from answering the same question numerous times.

Shouldn´t there a SB or SL coming out if this is of any importance??

And just in case it isn´t important, shouldn´t be there something like an "all-clear" call?

Maybe Van´s could step in here directly??

Hope to get the answers i am looking for, meanwhile preparing all the tools to go through the firewall (and a Email to Van´s).....

cheers!!

We did recently become aware of this and engineering is in the process of looking at it. It will take some time to work through and then publish a document.
In the mean time, drilling a 3/4” access hole at the bottom outboard corners of the firewall to gain access to the closed areas on each side of the cowl exit ramp is a good process to use for those that want to expedite changing out the hardware.
 
perfect!

Thanks for your answers.

I think the last two replies contain all information one is looking for!
 
We will be publishing a service bulletin (SB-00031) today at around Noon Pacific time covering the inspection and (when needed) removal of rivets and replacement with AN hardware. Thanks to those who reported this issue, it was very helpful.

You can look for a separate thread announcing the service bulletin here on VAF as well, after it has been published.
 
Can't say for sure when my RV-8 QB kit was born, but it was finished in 2013, so the 2009-2010 timeframe is plausible.

Mine, thankfully, had the bolts, so good to go. Hope the rest of you find out the same.
 
Any updates to using any sort of blind fastener. I know that the SB doesn't mention it, but curious if there is an traction in that being a possibility.

Another question-having purchased my -8 I'm not familiar with the process of this replacement. It sounds like the right side is pretty straight forward but from previous posts (and the other SB thread) im gathering that you have to deskin a portion of the underbelly to access the left side. Is that correct or can you access both sides without deskinning anything?

Thanks
 
Any updates to using any sort of blind fastener. I know that the SB doesn't mention it, but curious if there is an traction in that being a possibility.

Another question-having purchased my -8 I'm not familiar with the process of this replacement. It sounds like the right side is pretty straight forward but from previous posts (and the other SB thread) im gathering that you have to deskin a portion of the underbelly to access the left side. Is that correct or can you access both sides without deskinning anything?

Thanks

This is an outdated forum thread and deskinning is not recommended. The number of affected RV-8 fuselages is small, and it's important to review the applicable documents to determine if yours is affected, and if so what to do about it. Please review SB-00031 on the Van's Aircraft web site, in the Support > Safety and Service Info area for complete information about addressing this, if needed.
 
Circa 2004 QB Fuselage OK

I checked by Circa 2004 QB fuselage few days ago, the correct bolts were installed.:)
 
late 2006 QB ok

My QB fuselage was assembled in late 2006 I believe. It was shipped to me in early 2007. It is not a -1 matched-hole kit fuselage.

I inspected it today and the proper bolts were installed by the QB folks.
 
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