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How did you do your transition training?

00Dan

Well Known Member
Curious on how the members of this board handled transition training on the -4 (both builders and buyers). I know insurance is usually the driver on these sort of things (and the quotes I'm getting reflect that).

Did you find someone with a -6 or -7 to train in, or did you find an IP to fly in the -4 with you? If the latter, did you have rear controls installed?
 
Curious on how the members of this board handled transition training on the -4 (both builders and buyers). I know insurance is usually the driver on these sort of things (and the quotes I'm getting reflect that).

Did you find someone with a -6 or -7 to train in, or did you find an IP to fly in the -4 with you? If the latter, did you have rear controls installed?

Dan, I received a tailwheel check out in a Citabria then flew my -4 which had liability only ins.
 
I flew with Mike Seager in the -7 he instructs in. Well worth the effort. I figured with just a stick in the back seat I didn't want to take instruction in my -4, even if someone would do it.
 
I just jumped in the front seat of the RV-8 and flew solo, cold. No transition training or even a ride in the back seat at all.

No problem, no regrets.
 
Tail wheel endorsement in a Cub, 20 minute ride in a RV-7, then off in my RV-3. 400+ hours to date, all wheel landings on pavement.

If your '4 is anything like my '3, you're gonna love it!
 
Interesting that the responses so far have been mostly "hop in and go."

I have a little over 100 hours of tailwheel time but no RV time, and the insurance quotes I've received so far all want 10 hours of dual.
 
Interesting that the responses so far have been mostly "hop in and go."

I have a little over 100 hours of tailwheel time but no RV time, and the insurance quotes I've received so far all want 10 hours of dual.

Shop around. I too, had quotes requiring 10 hours of dual. Then I got quotes that required 1.
 
Dan, I have experience flying a few different types of airplanes. I have given instruction in Cubs and Citabrias. I have gotten a check out in every new type of airplane I have flown and the RV was no exception. I found a Van’s approved transition trainer and was checked out in an RV-7 prior to flying my RV-8. I may have been able to just strap in and go, but a check out seemed logical to me. Plus I learned an awful lot about the airplane that I would have never known had I just blasted off with my fingers crossed. The money I spent on transition training gave me the best value for the dollar of anything else I spent on the airplane.
 
Interesting that the responses so far have been mostly "hop in and go."

I have a little over 100 hours of tailwheel time but no RV time, and the insurance quotes I've received so far all want 10 hours of dual.

Don’t let the “high timers” influence you - one of the biggest influences in lowering the accident rates for experimentals Has ben the increased emphasis in type-specific transition training - statistics are showing that. Insurance companies aren’t just making up arbitrary hoops for people to jump through either - they have data to show that getting checked out in type makes a difference.

Now yes - getting dual in a tandem RV is pretty tough, and getting it in an RV-4 is even tougher. Fortunately, the highest-time RV transition trainer in the world has plenty of evidence that getting training in a side-by-side RV is close enough that you’ll learn the specific aspects you need to safely fly your -4 (or -8) for the first time.

I fly LOTS of different types of aircraft, mostly experimental, and I always take advantage of any transition opportunities I can get before I do. If it is a single seater, I ask lots of questions about handling characteristics and potential envelope corners that can be a problem. You can never have too much knowledge, or develop too many skills. Yes, eventually you’ll have to jump in to the airplane and fly it yourself - but leave that as the last step in figuring out the flight characteristics of higher performance airplanes like RV’s.

Paul
 
Don’t let the “high timers” influence you - one of the biggest influences in lowering the accident rates for experimentals Has ben the increased emphasis in type-specific transition training - statistics are showing that.

I completely agree. I have around 8,000 hours, so am reasonably high time. That said, getting transition training before flying the RV was a great idea. There are things that I wouldn't have discovered at all, or as quickly without the training. But more importantly was the instant comfort that I felt when I flew my airplane.

Stop and think for a second, what safety advantage is there by NOT getting transition training?

Next, what safety advantage is there by GETTING transition training?

If you can honestly answer those two questions, your decision on whether to get the training or not (in ANY RV -- something is better than nothing) is not a difficult one to make.
 
I’m completely on board with getting transition training. Obviously, being able to use my plane is certainly easier than having to find an IP with a side by side model, but it seems that will be worth the hassle (and perhaps necessary given the challenges of teaching in the tandem).
 
10 hours dual is steep. My wife is 120 hour TT with 15 tailwheel and she was required 2 hours dual and 3 hours solo prior to passengers.
 
I guess after all this time on this forum I still havent learned that even a simple answer is going to be dissected and analyzed for content.

The question was what did you do... And I answered honestly and directly.

That said, whether my particular course of action is right for everybody - or even the "best" choice for me - is open for debate.

...but that wasn't the question.
 
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Yes!

I guess after all this time on this forum I still havent learned that even a simple answer is going to be discected and analyzed for content.
...
It's what we do best! :D

I guess the concern is that someone who is not as experienced as you would interpret this as a recommendation to them. I doubt anyone was criticizing your choice but just clarifying that it probably would not be right for everyone.
 
Transition

I flew 5 hours, over 2 days, dual with an instructor in Okeechobee Florida. RV-6, I think. We did dozens of landings until I was comfortable...and my first flight in my -8 was uneventful!
 
I sat backseat with the former rv-4 owner twice then front seat for one pattern only flight with a CFI who had a stick and rudder in the back seat. Solo’d next flight, then flew it home 9.8 hrs from OR-NM the long way. I had almost 100 hrs J-3 Cub time and found the rv-4 pretty easy to land, just struggled with getting it slow enough on final (fixed pitch prop).
 
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It's what we do best! :D

I guess the concern is that someone who is not as experienced as you would interpret this as a recommendation to them. I doubt anyone was criticizing your choice but just clarifying that it probably would not be right for everyone.

Right... Its the "...but think of the children..." aspect of this forum.

Fair enough. And just for clarity (and this is is in no way an endorsement or recommendation), I believe that correct* transition training is generally desireable for any pilot. But I also believe transition training is not always required. I know its asking a lot in this day and age, but I'm comfortable leaving it up to the individual to decide their own course of action.

* Correct Training - My very first Rocket ride was with me in front and the owner in back, without full controls. I flew the airplane just fine, but following the advice of the owner, the landing approaches were flown way too fast. I could not nail the landings without a bunch of bounces and long rollouts. Fast forward a few years and for my next Rocket ride, I was solo. This time, I did not have the bad information from the back seat polluting my head and was able to fly the airplane by listening to what it was telling me. Flown slower, the airplane landed just fine, and I wondered what all the trouble was about on my first flight.

There is a difference between good transition training and bad. The latter can actually hurt you in the short term.
 
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I have an 8, not a 4. I used Bruce Bohannon. He has a cub for the tailwheel endorsement, and a dual control 8. Worked out well.
 
Hop in and go with my old -3. That was first RV ride. Same hop in and go with -8. I did have 600+ hrs tailwheel time.
 
Right... Its the "...but think of the children..." aspect of this forum.

Fair enough. And just for clarity (and this is is in no way an endorsement or recommendation), I believe that correct* transition training is generally desireable for any pilot. But I also believe transition training is not always required. I know its asking a lot in this day and age, but I'm comfortable leaving it up to the individual to decide their own course of action.

* Correct Training - My very first Rocket ride was with me in front and the owner in back, without full controls. I flew the airplane just fine, but following the advice of the owner, the landing approaches were flown way too fast. I could not nail the landings without a bunch of bounces and long rollouts. Fast forward a few years and for my next Rocket ride, I was solo. This time, I did not have the bad information from the back seat polluting my head and was able to fly the airplane by listening to what it was telling me. Flown slower, the airplane landed just fine, and I wondered what all the trouble was about on my first flight.

There is a difference between good transition training and bad. The latter can actually hurt you in the short term.

I think some of the issues is less and less pilots have the fundamentals down as concrete as they should. I sit at an airport all day long and watch people land, maybe 5% can actually hold the nose off, they don't have the control in the flare to touch the mains and not the nose immediately afterward. The instructors don't force them to know the fundamentals 100%.

I will echo that I hopped into a Lancair 320 and flew it with zero transition training, continued on to put 1000 hours on it. Did the same with my rocket, hopped in and flew, the fundamentals are all the same no matter what the airplane is (in our GA world at least).

All that said, most people I would recommend transition training for the reasons I said above.
 
I think some of the issues is less and less pilots have the fundamentals down as concrete as they should. I sit at an airport all day long and watch people land, maybe 5% can actually hold the nose off, they don't have the control in the flare to touch the mains and not the nose immediately afterward. The instructors don't force them to know the fundamentals 100%.

I will echo that I hopped into a Lancair 320 and flew it with zero transition training, continued on to put 1000 hours on it. Did the same with my rocket, hopped in and flew, the fundamentals are all the same no matter what the airplane is (in our GA world at least).

All that said, most people I would recommend transition training for the reasons I said above.

Can't agree more. The instructors these days lack the basics. I watch flight school airplanes do run ups without holding the yoke back, three point landings in cessnas, and no one holding the nose off the ground on takeoff. It's infuriating to watch.
 
I initially got transition training with a local CFI in his RV7- he signed me off after 5 hours of dual. Flew my RV8 for 300 hours, with no problems, thinking I was in the sweet spot. After an 18 month layover to convert my RV8 to a showplanes fastback, I took the time to get transition training with Mike Seager. With Mike I learned there was much I didn't know about flying a RV! That experience taught me to be constantly in learning mode, no matter what the logbook says! Mike has an unique insight that CFI's are not teaching these days, so if you can swing it, he's the big dog. I know a high time airline pilot who ended up 90 degrees to the runway on his first landing in his new RV8, so logbook time is one of many metrics to measure a pilot's skill. Have fun in you new RV4!
 
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Some years ago, I was approached by a couple of local CFIs who asked if I would orient (read than 'not' transition) them into a RV-7A as they had a couple of new RV pilots who wished to be transitioned into their new RV. Sure, I gave them the basic operating numbers & we went up for an orientation flight. In both cases it was their first control stick aircraft, they wanted no more than very basic flight maneuvers and when asked if they wanted to do slow flight & a stall series & such, the glassy eyes in the headlights look was the response. Now from that, what level of transition training do you imagine those new RV pilots got...
If you have the opportunity to train with the likes of Mike Seager & company, do it!
 
Transition training...

Quite the interesting read. If you live on the East Coast (or anywhere really) and want to chat about transition training and how to get through it there's a few options out there. Tandem RVs don't have brakes in the back seat most of the time, but getting checked out in their newly purchased tandem -4 or -8 is still possible for certain pilots.

If you are buying a flying RV and need to get it home and would like to train in your new aircraft that is the best option for many people.

Traveling all the way to the West Coast, Texas or Pennsylvania might be a little much for some. There's varying levels of availability with the guys on "the approved list" and one or two have even had to back off of training due to expensive insurance and LODA requirements.

There's other good threads here that have hashed out training challenges. Check those out. Read some transition training syllabi that have been posted here on VAF. Read everything on Van's website about transition training.

Consider...many times what is missing is a pilot seeking training is not current and proficient in flying anything, let alone a faster, more maneuverable aircraft.

Get current. Run through a few Wings Flight Activities and be ready to fly airplanes. Get your tail wheel endorsement before seeking RV transition training...yes, even if you are buying/building an 'A' model.

Also consider...pilots new to Experimental aircraft need to learn a few things about owning one, unique maintenance concerns and how to care for one. This is typically not included in transition training courses. Seek out instructors that teach more than just how to land!

Its fun getting back into the game. Enjoy the process and you'll naturally get a lot out of your investment.
 
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