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any thoughts on landing at Leadville, CO?

turbo

Well Known Member
my rv buddy is headed west with his son and are planning on going into leadville. being a flat lander i thought some ideas on doing it safely would be helpful for him. he is flying a 6 with cs prop and 180 hp. that airport runway seems short for 6,400' at 10,000' altitude. thanks for any input. :)
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I am planning to land there this summer as well. I have basically the same plane. I don't think 6400' is going to be a problem, but I am interested to get input from people who have.
 
We took our RV-6 in there many years ago and had no problem at all.
160 hp, F/P wood prop.
At the time we left, DA was 13,500'. We took off and climbed over the mountains back to Longmont.
 
my rv buddy is headed west with his son and are planning on going into leadville. being a flat lander i thought some ideas on doing it safely would be helpful for him. he is flying a 6 with cs prop and 180 hp. that airport runway seems short for 6,400' at 10,000' altitude. thanks for any input. :)
01006.jpg

Rosie and I went there as a flight of two over 10-years ago. I know there are photos but cannot find them. I remember density altitude was 14,400' when we took off in formation. I remember not using full power for the formation takeoff and the takeoff roll was longer than what we expected but no issue. on runway length for an RV.

If you use the airport car to go into town for food, do NOT drive over the posted speed limit. We got pulled over for going 5 mph over the posted speed but no ticket.

I found a picture of us Condor! I was fixed pitch 180hp back then and had no problems (full of baggage too!) :D Rosie

Leadville01.jpg
 
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Oxygen

Oxygen on board would be a good thing for a flat lander. Plenty of runway. Mike the manager is always there ask for Certificate of Navigation. Beautiful around there your buddy will enjoy.
 
Leadville

Just in case any one is interested, Leadville (KLVX) airport has a fourth of July cookout scheduled. Should you happen to be here during that week. Getting into Leadville has never been a problem for 339A and it's just a lowly 9A with a fixed pitch 0320 on it. Takeoff roll will be longer so be prepared for that and fly your Airspeed, not what "feels" right! Your ground reference will look different on takeoff... climb out on a hot day in 339A requires some extra time getting to altitude, but in a constant speed 0360 shouldn't be as much of problem. Contact me, if I can be of any help.

Some pics from Deb and I's visit there last fall for the pancake breakfast.

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Regards,
 
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Scott, I love that picture of the lake, mountains, and aspen trees. That picture says it all. Thanks. :cool:
 
Turbo,

I do agree with Vlad to bring oxygen. It is surrounded by tall mountains and you may need to cross them. Acceleration and climb are slow (see the video below). It took much more effort for me to pull the airplane around tiedown. My flat ground lung is not accustomed to the high elevation.

My videos of landing and takeoff (filled with cheap fuel and at gross):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rsi8djJ-ltM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHwbwEBiPN4

Photos (toward the end of the first album for arrival and the beginning of the 2nd album for departure):

https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/107646684575855201411/albums/5624722144896883505
https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/107646684575855201411/albums/5624959223565540177
 
Great DA illustrations

Scott, Ted: thanks for the complementary input; "...fly your Airspeed, not what "feels" right!" is very well demonstrated by departure and arrival videos.

The view over the passenger-side wing in Ted's takeoff video is dramatic; the relative motion of the trees increases to very high rate before there is sufficient airspeed for a safe liftoff.

Groundspeed after landing is also significantly more than what I'm accustomed to see; my guess is there are a number of long runouts at Leadville.

Of course, that high groundspeed is very nice to have, while cruising at altitude.
 
They give flight instruction out of Leadville in 172's. I couldn't believe it either, but it is really true. That does NOT mean it is easy and that in your RV you couldn't get in trouble. The instructors have to fly in the morning and they need to know what they are doing.

It is a great place to visit and the town is pretty interesting with some nice shops. The views around there are amazing and worth the effort to get there. The fuel is cheap and people from all over the area go there to fill up.

Just fly smart and make sure you are up to date on your DA performance limits. If anyone wants a real challenge, come over the hill to Glenwood Springs Airport.
http://www.glenwoodspringsairport.com/

Not nearly as long and some interesting air currents from the canyon walls and the river at the threshold.
 
Some Mountain Flying Safety Thoughts

Just a note to think about for those flatlanders without much mountain flying experience. These are just my personal comments, I am not an expert by any means, but I did a lot of mountain flying with the Civil Air Patrol when I lived in Colorado.

We did not fly if the winds at mountain top level were greater than 25 knots and we always crossed a ridge at 45 degrees heading to allow for a turnout if we got into a downdraft. Be cognizant of blind canyons with no way out. And don't fly up the center of a canyon, always to the upwind side so you have a maximum turn area available.

Mountain flying is very beautiful. Be aware the weather can change in a heartbeat. Especially afternoon thunderstorms.
 
sounds like another call for performance charts!

This reminds me of a previous thread....admonishions to 'be careful' and 'know your performance' are true and sound......but how many of us have done the flight test regimen to develop proper DA charts or calculations?
less than 1% I'd guess.

any test pilots (like Kevin Horton) out there, that can comment?;)
 
This is good info for flat landers like me, I'm not so worried about the airport as much as having the safest route in and out.

Just a note to think about for those flatlanders without much mountain flying experience. These are just my personal comments, I am not an expert by any means, but I did a lot of mountain flying with the Civil Air Patrol when I lived in Colorado.

We did not fly if the winds at mountain top level were greater than 25 knots and we always crossed a ridge at 45 degrees heading to allow for a turnout if we got into a downdraft. Be cognizant of blind canyons with no way out. And don't fly up the center of a canyon, always to the upwind side so you have a maximum turn area available.

Mountain flying is very beautiful. Be aware the weather can change in a heartbeat. Especially afternoon thunderstorms.
 
Lean for Takeoff

Just a note to think about for those flatlanders without much mountain flying experience. These are just my personal comments, I am not an expert by any means, but I did a lot of mountain flying with the Civil Air Patrol when I lived in Colorado.

We did not fly if the winds at mountain top level were greater than 25 knots and we always crossed a ridge at 45 degrees heading to allow for a turnout if we got into a downdraft. Be cognizant of blind canyons with no way out. And don't fly up the center of a canyon, always to the upwind side so you have a maximum turn area available.

Mountain flying is very beautiful. Be aware the weather can change in a heartbeat. Especially afternoon thunderstorms.

And don't forget your leaning procedures for high altitude takeoff.
 
"Updraft" side of canyon, vice "Upwind"

I'm not a mountain flyer, so take this with a grain of salt (i.e. get a qualified instructor!)

The reasoning behind "...don't fly up the center of a canyon, always to the upwind side so you have a maximum turn area available..." was not immediately obvious to me. This illustration makes it appear one should fly on the updraft (typically downwind) side of a canyon.

http://www.mountainflying.com/Pages/mountain-flying/images/canyon4.jpg

While everything on the Interwebs is by definition true;) mountain flying may be an addition to the list of things (aerobatics, formation flying) you don't want to learn online...
 
Thank you for correcting my error in terminology. By upwind I meant the side of the canyon that the wind is blowing you up over the ridge. You don't want to be on the side with the downdraft or it could push you into the mountainside. I see that I may have confused people with that error. I should have explained it better.

Always a good idea to check and verify information.
 
Don't be afraid of Leadville. Yes it is high, but I don't think any of the RVs would have trouble getting in and out. "Fly your airspeed" is great advice, but you don't need to worry about box canyons and the like. The runway sits in the middle of a wide, flat valley. Plenty of room to fly a normal pattern. If you are departing to the north/northeast you may need to make one circle over the field to gain enough altitude to clear that ridge. Departing other directions you probably wont need to circle, as those ridges are further out.

If you go into town, I recommend the Golden Burro. Great cinnamon rolls the size of hubcaps.

If you want a real thrill, try the field at Lake City. It is a combination landing strip/cow pasture. Short, full of rocks, tall pines at one end and a cliff at the other. It is best if you take someone else's plane.

Jim Berry
RV-10
 
If you want a real thrill, try the field at Lake City. It is a combination landing strip/cow pasture. Short, full of rocks, tall pines at one end and a cliff at the other. It is best if you take someone else's plane.

Jim Berry
RV-10

That is GOOD advice Jim!
 
.....



If you want a real thrill, try the field at Lake City. It is a combination landing strip/cow pasture. Short, full of rocks, tall pines at one end and a cliff at the other. It is best if you take someone else's plane.

Jim Berry
RV-10

... and the identifier is ...?
 
Pardue did it in a Pacer!

This is good info for flat landers like me, I'm not so worried about the airport as much as having the safest route in and out.

As I recall, Larry Pardue flew into Leadville as part of a mass fly-out during a Piper Pacer event. The organizers handed out a well-defined route to help the pilots find the lowest route in. Should be a simple trip for someone flying smart in an RV. There's been some good advice given already.

Larry? Are you out there?
 
Found a private strip CD32 is this right lake city?

That is the one. Note that the cows share the field with moose and elk, depending on time of year. It is beautiful country, but I would go back only with a serious bush plane.

Jim Berry
RV-10
 
I learned to fly at LXV in a 172 and have been back there in my 9. Not really an issue getting in and out with most any airplane if you know the airplane. An RV will have no problems with power and the runway is plenty long. As already noted, fly airspeed and lean properly (on the ground) and you will have no issues.

Greg
 
Don't be afraid of Leadville. Yes it is high, but I don't think any of the RVs would have trouble getting in and out. "Fly your airspeed" is great advice, but you don't need to worry about box canyons and the like. The runway sits in the middle of a wide, flat valley. Plenty of room to fly a normal pattern. If you are departing to the north/northeast you may need to make one circle over the field to gain enough altitude to clear that ridge. Departing other directions you probably wont need to circle, as those ridges are further out.

If you go into town, I recommend the Golden Burro. Great cinnamon rolls the size of hubcaps.

If you want a real thrill, try the field at Lake City. It is a combination landing strip/cow pasture. Short, full of rocks, tall pines at one end and a cliff at the other. It is best if you take someone else's plane.
Jim Berry
RV-10


Your airplane is someone else's, so lets go! :D
 
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