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Another short lived Odyssey PC-680

Brantel

Well Known Member
The quality of the Odyssey PC-680 sure seems to have tanked in the last few years.

I proactively replaced mine last year just before Osh (was 6 years old) and Sunday I found the latest one failed with too low a voltage to pull in the master. Never used any charger other than the airplane which normally does a great job regulating voltage.

Tried charging it but it would not absorb any power, voltage rose up rapidy with no real capacity to do any work.

I will try to rejuvenate it for lawn mower duty... new one on the way. :eek::(:confused:
 
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I know the feeling

I've gone through a few PC680s. I've tried no charger use, then bought the Odyssey charger with a new PC680 last year and used it regularly. No difference that I could tell; both PC680s just didn't want to start the airplane well after about a year. This spring the one I had failed to start it even after charging. I ordered the Hawker SBS J16 Aircraft battery. We'll see how it holds up. All these batteries have been purchased at Battery Mart online, so I called and talked with them. Long story short, I returned the 14 month old PC680 and they tested it and refunded its' purchase price. That made it a little easier to buy a new battery! I hope you have better luck with your next one. :)
 
I just had one die on me 2 weeks ago. Made it about a year from purchase. I believe it has to do with the born on dates. Mine was built in 2016. The new one I replaced it with has a born on date a few months later in 2016. These things are sitting on shelves Somewhere for years.
 
I've gone through a few PC680s. I've tried no charger use, then bought the Odyssey charger with a new PC680 last year and used it regularly. No difference that I could tell; both PC680s just didn't want to start the airplane well after about a year. This spring the one I had failed to start it even after charging. I ordered the Hawker SBS J16 Aircraft battery. We'll see how it holds up. All these batteries have been purchased at Battery Mart online, so I called and talked with them. Long story short, I returned the 14 month old PC680 and they tested it and refunded its' purchase price. That made it a little easier to buy a new battery! I hope you have better luck with your next one. :)

Gosh that Hawker SBS J16 sure looks like the same battery as the PC680!?!?
It kinda looks like the higher price is because of the FAA-PMA and STC. Some sites call both batteries "dry cell" rather than AGM.

Can someone who knows about these tell us if this is really actually a better/different battery? Can you recommend other alternatives (non LiFePo).
 
Performed well for me...

Just replaced my first that was 2013 vintage this past annual. Can’t complain about 7 years, especially in Canadian winters, but fly regularly, and have my VR set at 14.7V. Had been run totally flat twice, and replaced as we were planning a trip to Alaska prior to COVID and it was turning over a little slow, but still functional.
 
Gosh that Hawker SBS J16 sure looks like the same battery as the PC680!?!?
It kinda looks like the higher price is because of the FAA-PMA and STC. Some sites call both batteries "dry cell" rather than AGM.

Can someone who knows about these tell us if this is really actually a better/different battery? Can you recommend other alternatives (non LiFePo).

Here are some quotes direct from the source on the differences, bottom line is the actual battery parts inside are identical.

Here are the differences per conversation with Odyssey:

Thank you for using EnerSys/Hawker aviation batteries.* Although both of these batteries have the same footprint and performance characteristics (as Kathy notes below), the J-16 features a flash arrestor and glued valve cover for improved safety in aviation applications.*

The SBS J-16 also features full FAA-PMA certification for numerous Cessna and Piper models (when used in conjunction with certain aftermarket STC modification kits) ? although this is not so pertinent in the context of experimental aircraft.*I?d like to add Dan Soltan, our Aviation Sales Manager, to this conversation in case you have further / more in-depth follow-up questions.*

Hello XXX, Thank you for contacting EnerSys/ODYSSEY.The ODYSSEY PC680 is commonly used in the experimental aircraft industry and has the same performance specifications and footprint as the FAA-PMA SBS J16 PowerSafe model battery. Neither is a knockoff of the other. They are each manufactured and marketed to fulfill specific market needs.

One additional feature of the SBS J16 is use in Aerobatic Aircraft.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bottom line....Same power output as the PC680 but the more expensive J16 has a few extra features for certified aircraft with an STC. Stick with the PC680.

Here is more info I received from Odyssey about the PC680's life expectancy and battery "freshness" from online vendors:


Typical service-life expectation for both batteries is about two years. In ideal conditions with minimal abuse, they can and frequently do last longer. On the other hand, such factors as repeated overdischarge, parasitic drain, etc. can shorten life. Many variables, but long story short: service life in the PC680 vs. the SBS J-16 is apples-to-apples.

Thanks to our proprietary Thin Plate Pure Lead technology, both batteries can also sit on the shelf for up to two years with no degradation of performance (assuming storage at or below 77?F). That said, receiving freshest possible product can certainly give added peace of mind.

I?m adding Dan Soltan back to copy ? he might have some insights on which authorized distributors/vendors move inventory most quickly (and thus would tend to have fresher stock on their shelf for you and your fellow Van?s operators).
 
Battery Mart has what appears to be a house-brand, USA-made BigCrank AGM battery. Available in 14Ah and 19Ah. dimensions and weights similar to Odyssey, although not identical. Terminal polarity is switched. They are a fair-bit less expensive.

I wonder if these would be a good thing to try next time?

ETX15 is 14Ah, about $90, 13 lbs
ETX16 is 19Ah, about $105, 19lbs.

Anybody try these?
 
Not in those sizes, but I put a Big Crank,appropriately sized, in my RV10 & it cranks every bit as well as the previous Odyssey.
 
Just replaced my first that was 2013 vintage this past annual. Can’t complain about 7 years, especially in Canadian winters, but fly regularly, and have my VR set at 14.7V. Had been run totally flat twice, and replaced as we were planning a trip to Alaska prior to COVID and it was turning over a little slow, but still functional.

My Odyssey has always cranked the engine just fine, but after a year or two, it seems to have lost a lot of capacity. e.g., if I just turn on the panel, engine off, buss voltage drops to below 12 volts in about a minute or so (after that, it drops more slowly). I read on the Odyssey web site that recommended buss voltage was 14.7 volts (see above post), but my internally regulated Plane Power alternator is set at 14.3 volts. Is this difference important to long life? Anyone know, can I fool the regulator to put out a higher voltage by putting a Shottkey diode in the field line?
 
I was surprised to see ‘storage below 77* F’ in their note. My hanger (and the battery in the plane) gets a lot hotter than that in the summer. :eek:
 
Mine died after 13 months - switched to EarthX

My PC-680 installed in May, 2015, lasted until spring 2019. It gave me advance warning - its resting voltage dropped from 12.3 to 12.0 and it didn't spin the starter as quickly. I purchased a new PC-680 at 2019 Sun n Fun. This battery died a quick death at 13 months. No advance warning - one day it wouldn't spin the prop. At least it did it at my home field. This gave me an excuse to try EarthX. I installed an EarthX ETX-680, with the BB-TH, SS, insulated battery box (need to install the blast tube) and BMS warning light. The new battery box holes lined up with the original holes in the firewall. More $$. But, so far, very happy.
 
I just had one die on me 2 weeks ago. Made it about a year from purchase. I believe it has to do with the born on dates. Mine was built in 2016. The new one I replaced it with has a born on date a few months later in 2016. These things are sitting on shelves Somewhere for years.

I believe the manufacture date is the number below - 2016 is part of the model number.
 
My Odyssey has always cranked the engine just fine, but after a year or two, it seems to have lost a lot of capacity. e.g., if I just turn on the panel, engine off, buss voltage drops to below 12 volts in about a minute or so (after that, it drops more slowly). I read on the Odyssey web site that recommended buss voltage was 14.7 volts (see above post), but my internally regulated Plane Power alternator is set at 14.3 volts. Is this difference important to long life? Anyone know, can I fool the regulator to put out a higher voltage by putting a Shottkey diode in the field line?

I did some research on the powersonic website a few years ago (same design and chemistry as odyssey, but they are much more forthcoming with tech details). While 14.7 is recommended as a final charge voltage, that is not the same as the float voltage (recommnded voltage for maintaining the battery after charging). They specify a float voltage of 2.25-2.30 volts/cell, which is 13.5 - 13.8. So, for maximum charge, you want 14.7 for a short period of time and for ongoing maintenance, you want 13.8. Therefore, you want your alternator's voltage to be a compromise between those numbers, as it only charges for a very short period after a normal start and is then floating. If you run it at 14.7 continuously, you will take more life out of it than if you ran it at a lower voltage (you are cooking the battery over time and therefore reducing it's capacity). If you run it at 14.2, you will never reach a 100% charge, but you won't reduce it's capacity over time as much by cooking it either. Hence the compromise.

I don't have a magic answer, but I would not run any higher than 14.2 - 14.4. You should never think of your alternator as a charger. A good charger has three to five stages, along with pre-defined timers, and your alternator has one. It is a compromise between charging and maintaining.

Follow the lead of the auto manufacturers. A flooded lead acid (slightly different than the sealed lead acid) is charged at 14.5 and floated at 13.6. The auto world has generally settled on 14.0 - 14.2 as the optimum compromise for their voltage regulators. A couple decades ago, they used 13.8

This goes into great depth, including how higher temps require lower charge adn float voltages:

https://www.power-sonic.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/Technical-Manual.pdf

Larry
Larry
 
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To follow up on this:

Battery Mart issued me an RMA for this battery, tested it and confirmed it was bad and are issuing me a full refund for the purchase price.

Great customer service. Just wish I didn’t need top exercise it.
 
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To follow up on this:

Battery Mart issued me an RMA for this battery, tested it and confirmed it was bad and are issuing me a full refund for the purchase price.

Great customer service. Just wish I did'nt need top exercise it.

I'm a loyal Battery Mart customer based on their excellent customer service. Went through a similar PC-680 return/refund last year.
 
A bit of luck is involved!

I have been using those batteries for 'a while' now. Some have done admirable service; some are kaput in a very short time. I have cranked up my B&C regulator to 14.7V (matching the Odyssey charger voltage) - maybe this one will hang on a while longer?

In looking at the EarthX batteries, they like higher voltage from the alternator too.

I do not know how to get the PP alternators to pump up to the required voltage to keep the 680 alive - but I can volunteer that the lower voltage will not keep your 680 alive for a long period of time, as it is never getting a full charge from the alternator with the voltage on the low 14V range.

See:
https://www.odysseybattery.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/ody_chargers_sheet-1.pdf
 
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Wrong Date?

I just had one die on me 2 weeks ago. Made it about a year from purchase. I believe it has to do with the born on dates. Mine was built in 2016. The new one I replaced it with has a born on date a few months later in 2016. These things are sitting on shelves Somewhere for years.

The numbers 2016 is the part/model number, The DOM is the second line down.
This battery DOM is September 2019.
 

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Warning from battery

I don't want to get stranded at an airport because of a bad battery. I'm I at risk of that by flying with the PC680? I'm on my second within the first year and 80 hours. I figured the first one was a lemon. That happens. And that this second one is going to last 5 years. Right? Will there be a warning so I can replace it before I'm away from home?

thanks
 
I don't want to get stranded at an airport because of a bad battery. I'm I at risk of that by flying with the PC680? I'm on my second within the first year and 80 hours. I figured the first one was a lemon. That happens. And that this second one is going to last 5 years. Right? Will there be a warning so I can replace it before I'm away from home?

thanks

I have had em fail slowly over time and this last one failed rapidly. Good luck!
 
My 6-year-old PC680 failed suddenly while flying. It had started the engine just fine.
A weld inside of the battery failed. I did not realize that the battery failed until
closing the throttle to land. The permanent magnet alternator output went low
and electrical loads shut down.
 
My 6-year-old PC680 failed suddenly while flying. It had started the engine just fine.
A weld inside of the battery failed. I did not realize that the battery failed until
closing the throttle to land. The permanent magnet alternator output went low
and electrical loads shut down.

Had that happen to a Wesco AGM battery.
 
I’ve had 4 PC680’s over the last 19 years on different airplanes. All have lasted 7+ years. The last one was replaced because of age (north of 7 years), as all of my new battery replacements have, but it still started my engine. I fly frequently, 4+ times per week when the weather is good, and I practically never charge it. I don’t know if that has anything to do with it, but I’m happy with the PC680.
 
Gosh that Hawker SBS J16 sure looks like the same battery as the PC680!?!?
It kinda looks like the higher price is because of the FAA-PMA and STC. Some sites call both batteries "dry cell" rather than AGM.

Can someone who knows about these tell us if this is really actually a better/different battery? Can you recommend other alternatives (non LiFePo).

The more expensive Hawker SBS J16 that Brantel quoted me in this thread did not last any longer than the PC680. I went back to the PC680.
 
The battery box that I got from Vans will only fit a genuine Odyssey PC680 battery. I've tried 3 other generic ones with similar or same size description and they will not fit in the box.

I "resized" my box by purchasing another box from Vans and cut/riveted the long side on with about 1/8 inch greater opening.

Now I'm not stuck with just one brand that will fit my airplane.
 
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I just did a long write up on my experience with Odyssey 680s in the ‘dual batteries or alternators’ thread. I’ve ruined quite a few of them starting back around 2008 and been maintaining a flying pair of them for 9+ years. Now I’m very confident with them. A couple of things I’m particularly confident about:

1) They won’t tolerate any kind of parasitic drain without a trickle charger. My test for a parasitic drain would be to charge the battery, wait 24 hours, measure the voltage with no load. Then leave it hooked up in the plane just as you would normally store it and check the voltage a week or 2 later. It should be exactly the same voltage minus a couple of hundredths of a volt at most. If it’s not, it’s slowly dying unless you use a trickle charger or disconnect from the plane after flight.

2) The planes charging system needs to be between 14.3 and 14.7. I’ve found 14.7 to be fine and it doesn’t seem to reduce battery life. I know that 13.9 is not enough and will result in slow death.

3) Testing the battery’s capacity using voltage is effective; charge it with a proper charger, leave it disconnected for 24 hours, check the voltage against the chart in the user manual. 12.8 is good to go, 12.5 is 75% capacity. With a single battery I’d be replacing it between 12.6 and 12.7.

The one thing I wonder about is whether the battery is fully charged at the end of the flight and whether that can have an impact on battery life. In my ‘10 with dual alternators I know that my charging voltage can drop under 14 volts after landing in certain configurations (whether buses are cross linked or not combined with idle speed). Can a long taxi at low RPMs with my small vacuum pad alternator result in leaving a battery with less than a 100% charge? I’m trying to collect some data and do some analysis but it doesn’t seem to be a problem with my installation.
 
Wow great to hear from people who have delved way deeper into battery technology than I ever have or will! Now I'm going to have to go out and test for parasitic drain and regulator voltage etc. etc. :eek:

I'm on my fourth Odyssey battery in 21 years so I guess I'm doing all right. I don't routinely use a trickle charger, just occasionally put it on a 2A charge overnight if the plane had been idle or I've been doing work with the panel lit up. Recently I bought a Battery Tender Jr. but I still only hook that up when it's going to be idle for a couple of weeks or more. I suppose I should be using that all the time, and is that an okay charger to use for this purpose?

I have a Davtron clock which is pulling some charge when the plane is idle. I don't know that anything else would be drawing power when it's off but who knows anymore with all that glass :rolleyes:
 
I'm on my fourth Odyssey battery in 21 years so I guess I'm doing all right. I don't routinely use a trickle charger, just occasionally put it on a 2A charge overnight if the plane had been idle or I've been doing work with the panel lit up. Recently I bought a Battery Tender Jr. but I still only hook that up when it's going to be idle for a couple of weeks or more. I suppose I should be using that all the time, and is that an okay charger to use for this purpose?

I have a Davtron clock which is pulling some charge when the plane is idle. I don't know that anything else would be drawing power when it's off but who knows anymore with all that glass :rolleyes:
A clock in my (3) GRT HX EFISs cost me a couple of batteries before I just disconnected it. Later the software was upgraded so it picked the time off the GPS signal after they were powered on. Maybe with 1 GRT HX, the battery would survive. The drain was very minimal but enough.

Sounds like the Davtron isn’t killing you and you have been doing a little supplemental charging when needed.
 
Not for use in aircraft

I'm on my fourth Odyssey battery in 21 years so I guess I'm doing all right.

I should probably amend that... I had one battery go bad shortly after purchase. Rather than send it back and have to wait for a new one, I took it to a local battery place (don't remember what one) since the Mfg. states that it's an option to take to any authorized dealer for warranty replacement.

Since I hadn't purchased it there they were kind of grumpy and asked what I was using it for? Trick question but fortunately I'd read the fine print which says "not for use on aircraft" like pretty much everything does. So with a straight face I truthfully said "In my RV, to power accessories".
 
More Odyssey PC-680 Woes

I have a year old Odyssey PC-680 installed on my RV-7A. Have had no problems starting for local flights, but on two recent multiple-overnight X-Cs I've had a dead battery during a refueling stop. No problem cranking for the first leg; after a 2-hour flight and an hour long lunch at the stop, the battery is dead. I know the 680 likes a 14.7v to charge up, but the Plane-Power alternator is putting out 14-14.2 inflight. Wouldn't that be enough to keep the 680 charged?

Dennis
N947CB
 
I have a year old Odyssey PC-680 installed on my RV-7A. Have had no problems starting for local flights, but on two recent multiple-overnight X-Cs I've had a dead battery during a refueling stop. No problem cranking for the first leg; after a 2-hour flight and an hour long lunch at the stop, the battery is dead. I know the 680 likes a 14.7v to charge up, but the Plane-Power alternator is putting out 14-14.2 inflight. Wouldn't that be enough to keep the 680 charged?

Dennis
N947CB

Similar airplane - PC680 charges just fine at 13.6 - 14.5VDC.

What was the symptom of "dead battery?" -- No "thunk" when you turned on the master switch? Volts reading < 11V?
 
I have a year old Odyssey PC-680 installed on my RV-7A. Have had no problems starting for local flights, but on two recent multiple-overnight X-Cs I've had a dead battery during a refueling stop. No problem cranking for the first leg; after a 2-hour flight and an hour long lunch at the stop, the battery is dead. I know the 680 likes a 14.7v to charge up, but the Plane-Power alternator is putting out 14-14.2 inflight. Wouldn't that be enough to keep the 680 charged?

Dennis
N947CB

I would expect 14.2 to get the Batt up to at least a 95% charge rate. Seems odd that the batt has enough energy to start first thing and then be dead after 2 hours of flying at 14.2 volts.

Next time it does that, check the batt voltage at the battery itself. If it is >12.6 volts, your problem isn't the battery. Something may be warming up that is preventing electrons from flowing.

Larry
 
Odyssey PC-680 Woes

Brian/Larry

Thanks for your input.

When I said the battery was dead, the starter would not turn the prop and the solenoid just clicked.

On the first X-C, an A&P put a heavy duty battery charger on for 1-1/2 hours and that was enough to crank the engine. On the second X-C, I hooked up my CTEK charger and it took overnight to fully recharge the battery. I plan on duplicating my X-C experience locally and examining the battery more thoroughly.

Dennis
 
Dennis - recommend you stop trying to breath new life into a bad battery. Replace it. Even if you breath some life back into it you now have no clue on battery capacity - until you really need it. Pull the battery and use it for your lawn tractor or such.

Consider a battery more as a “consumable” and less as a part.

After you replace it, monitor your charging system to make sure there is not smoking gun.

Carl
 
Brian/Larry

Thanks for your input.

When I said the battery was dead, the starter would not turn the prop and the solenoid just clicked.

On the first X-C, an A&P put a heavy duty battery charger on for 1-1/2 hours and that was enough to crank the engine. On the second X-C, I hooked up my CTEK charger and it took overnight to fully recharge the battery. I plan on duplicating my X-C experience locally and examining the battery more thoroughly.

Dennis

Just because the solenoid just clicked doesn’t necessarily mean the battery is dead. What was the battery voltage? Skytek starter solenoids are famous for failing in that manner. Perhaps the solenoid cooled down during the battery charging and misled you to believe it’s a battery issue?
 
Just because the solenoid just clicked doesn’t necessarily mean the battery is dead. What was the battery voltage? Skytek starter solenoids are famous for failing in that manner. Perhaps the solenoid cooled down during the battery charging and misled you to believe it’s a battery issue?

Interesting, as this just happened to me on my now 90 hour IO-360-M1B. The Skytek starter would not engage after a short fuel stop (as in engine hot) until I hit the start button 2-3 times more. The good folks at Thunderbolt sent me new starter (their dime).

For this issue you would have your firewall mounted starter solenoid engage (the clunk) but battery voltage stay high. This could mean your starter solenoid is bad - easily replaced for ~$13 or so to eliminate that option. If the problem is still there then the starter is the problem.

Carl
 
Two solenoids . . . . Check FW first

It won't start = engine spinning but not firing.

It is always assumed that the click and no start is the starter solenoid -- NOT SO, you have to check both.

Note the Vans wiring goes through the starter solenoid on the firewall. Most likely that is the one that clicks. I had one doing that and ran wires up to the starter at the solenoid etc. When it clicked I had a voltmeter on it. It was NOT the SKYTEC solenoid although the fine folks there said they would help me no matter what.

Advice (not advise): check the voltage on the wire from the FW starter solenoid that goes up to activate the Skytec solenoid and see if it is providing power to activate.

That solenoid has a crummy electrical design internally.

Below is a pix of the internal problem of the solenoid. The larger copper disc is pulled down across the high amp terminals, and the brass piece on top of the copper with the 90 deg leg is the simultaneously activated 12v power to the Skytec solenoid. That brass piece floats on top of the copper disc to make electrical contact, and does so poorly resulting my my click. If you have the wiring diagram shown, then definitely check the voltage on that "I" terminal before replacing any parts.

I'll send you the movie if you will email me.

Internet diagnostics being what they are, just add this to the FMEA - - your mileage will vary.

IMG_3619.jpg Z11N - starter only.png
 
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The reason I ask is that I had a similar experience with my YIO-360-A1B6.

After a moderate cross country flight, stop for fuel and hang out for a bit, the engine would not restart at first -- engaging the key yielded a thunk but no spinning, after two twists of the key, the starter engaged and spun the engine as before.

I flew home, shut down, waited about 10 minutes and tried to start again - same result; initial twist of the key and I would hear a thunk - holding the key in the start position for about 5 seconds and the engine would turn over.

Root cause was a defective starter solenoid - at the starter motor - not the firewall. The piston was binding, and would not retract when hot, thus the solenoid would not close and pass current to the starter motor.

There are 2 Starter "solenoids" in our typical aircraft -- one on the firewall next to the Master Relay, the other is a part of/connected to the starter motor itself.
 
When are aircraft people moving out of middle ages? You dont need a second solenoid to make skytec or any starter with its own solenoid to function ! Its only
second place for problem !
 
When are aircraft people moving out of middle ages? You dont need a second solenoid to make skytec or any starter with its own solenoid to function ! Its only
second place for problem !

The challenge here is there are 2 different types of common Skytec starters. The NL series does not have a solenoid and the other does. Some of the older prestoites didn't have one either.

Larry
 
Add me to the list of short-lived PC680 users. I just purchased my 7th PC680 in 15 years of operations. The first one lasted 5 years. After that, it's been every 1 to 2 years.

In late August 2020, the most recent one served me well on a 8 flight hour cross-country with a solid 14.1 volts alternator feeding it. Then it sat for 2 weeks. I loaded the plane for another cross-country, saddled up, turned on the master switch and was greeted with 10.7 volts. The local Batteries Plus had one on the shelf for $179.99 which came to $208, including a $10 core charge. Ouch!, but I got on my way. The removed battery was purchased and received from Battery Mart in November 2018 and installed shortly after it was received.

Question: Besides the hot lead going to the Master switch, the only other item connected to the hot (red) terminal on the PC680 is my Lightspeed Ignition in place of the right magneto through a 5 Amp CB. Does this create a parasitic draw on the battery even with the master switch Off?
 
Question: Besides the hot lead going to the Master switch, the only other item connected to the hot (red) terminal on the PC680 is my Lightspeed Ignition in place of the right magneto through a 5 Amp CB. Does this create a parasitic draw on the battery even with the master switch Off?

If the Lightspeed power from that breaker goes directly to the Lightspeed box with no ON/OFF switch between the breaker and the ignition, then yes.

Carl
 
Let's close this out . .

When are aircraft people moving out of middle ages? You dont need a second solenoid to make skytec or any starter with its own solenoid to function ! Its only
second place for problem !

The challenge here is there are 2 different types of common Skytec starters. The NL series does not have a solenoid and the other does. Some of the older prestoites didn't have one either.

Larry

A direct switch can do this job if the amperage is rated up to 35 amps (see AeroElectric article on this) but the typical switches and push buttons for starting are down below 5 amps. Some are quite expensive too. This is the reason for the two solenoids - one contactor, one real solenoid to engage actuate the pinion. The NL only uses the contactor as the pinion engage function is a different design.
 
When are aircraft people moving out of middle ages? You dont need a second solenoid to make skytec or any starter with its own solenoid to function

I have a Skytec NL wired internally to eliminate the separate firewall contactor. The grip start button drives an ordinary relay, which feeds the internal solenoid.

https://www.danhorton.net/Misc/Rewiring_NL_Solenoid.pdf

The advantages are obvious, but there is a potentially serious disadvantage. The big battery cable to the starter is always live with the master on, and the engine is a huge vibration source. It is very important to route and secure the cable in a manner which will not allow it to float around and rub through the insulation.

Yes, it is always live in your car, but cars don't route the cable on the engine itself. It's generally hard mounted to the frame or body.
 
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If the Lightspeed power from that breaker goes directly to the Lightspeed box with no ON/OFF switch between the breaker and the ignition, then yes.

Carl

From LSE -

All Plasma II Plus and Plasma III CDI systems can be operated with a standard aircraft key switch. There is no current drain on your battery when power is supplied via the input connector and the key switch is in the off position. A pull-able circuit breaker should still be installed between the ignition and the battery.
 
I have a Plasma II+. I have a pullable 5A CB between the battery and the ignition. I use an ACS A-510-2 keyswitch to start and control the magneto and Lightspeed ignitions to the engine so I do not have a toggle switch installed between the CB and the Lightspeed ignition as I understand the schematic. Is it an either/or situation to kill power to the Plasma II+? Use a toggle switch OR run power from the CB through the keyswitch to kill power to the Plasma II+?

I'm trying to remove a possible parasitic power drain since the Plasma II+ appears to be on all of the time.
 
Question: Besides the hot lead going to the Master switch, the only other item connected to the hot (red) terminal on the PC680 is my Lightspeed Ignition in place of the right magneto through a 5 Amp CB. Does this create a parasitic draw on the battery even with the master switch Off?

No need to guess. Just connect your multimeter in series between the battery terminal and the ignition power wire, and set it to amps. If it's anything but zero, you have a power draw.
 
When are aircraft people moving out of middle ages? You dont need a second solenoid to make skytec or any starter with its own solenoid to function ! Its only
second place for problem !

Amen brother!

Just consider the potential safety issue Dan mentioned above with a fat wire always hot whenever the Main solenoid is energized. Doing a good job of isolating/protecting the fat cable where it's attached to the engine is doable I think, but the remaining risk is in case of a crash, that cable could still short out somewhere. Just remember to turn off the Main switch if a crash is imminent.

IF you go this route, you should use a small Bosch-style "ice cube" relay to energize the starter-mounted solenoid or use a heavy-duty-enough start switch to handle the 10+ amps the solenoid coil draws.

One cool thing about using an ice cube relay is you can run the Avionics power feed through the NC contacts so that the avionics bus is disconnected from the main battery while cranking to prevent any of that equipment from seeing low voltage. You would need to have an avionics backup battery of course for this to work.

Another benefit to this wiring scheme is the alternator B+ lead can be very short and attached to the starter cable terminal.

And for the naysayers who say those Bosch relays are a failure point too, consider auto manufacturers use these relays to trigger airbags and ABS pumps.
 
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