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TIAL Turbocharger Wastegate Question

Vans101

Well Known Member
Is there a way to plumb a TIAL turbocharger wastegate controller to be automatic for the control of MAP during the climb?

Perhaps I chose the wrong method of plumbing my wastegate hoses as I am using a "two port" controller when I should be using something different like a "three port" system??? (see PDF).

Of course all of the information on the web is automobile engine focuses and they keep talking about boost values that over/under/creep/etc but I need to understand what happens at a constant throttle (WOT) when increasing in pressure altitude so I was hoping some airplane people can explain this to me...

The engine system is as follows:
-Lycoming TIO-540 with 7.3:1 compression pistons
-Single automotive type turbocharger
-Comp Turbo Technology CT3693S
-Wheel specs are 62/75
-Oil lubricated
-2.0 CT40
-1.52 Aspect Ratio
-T4 Inlet Twin scroll
-TIAL V60 Wastegate with GREEN 4.34 PSI Spring
-TurboSmart Dual Stage Boost Controller TS-0105

The wastegate air lines are currently plumbed up as indicated in the top picture of the attached PDF. The wastegate boost controller is installed in the engine compartment so I did not step out and fiddle with the knobs in flight...the only reason why I installed the dual stage boost controller is sometimes I might run MOGAS and I want the controller to limit my MAP to reduce the Effective Compression Ratio to 10:1 during these times with a flip of the switch.

Here are the WOT altitude verses MAP readings I get with the dual stage controller operating on the "high boost" setting (the low boost setting right now drops it about 1 inch HG):

MSL MAP
2200 39.1
3000 38.3
4000 37.4
5000 36.2
6000 35.5
7000 35.0
8000 33.0
9000 32.1
10000 31.4
11000 30.3

So it is kinda like a 1 inch HG drop per 1000 feet so the current boost controller system is being affected by change in pressure altitude so I need some kind of closed loop system....

Any help or advice would be appreciated!!!
 

Attachments

  • Wastegate System Setup.pdf
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Not sure if your Turbo Smart controller uses an absolute referenced MAP sensor or a gauge pressure referenced one? You need an absolute type if you want this to be automatic in holding the same MAP regardless of altitude.

You'd certainly want to use the 2nd hose iteration.
 
Thanks Ross for your reply!!!

>Not sure if your Turbo Smart controller uses an absolute referenced MAP sensor or a gauge pressure referenced one?

The dual boost controller is simply a "dumb" box that has two calibrated leak knobs and a solenoid. You set one knob to provide the calibrated leak to atmosphere that gives enough leak to cause the wastegate to open to the "high" boost setting and then when you flip the switch the solenoid routes the hose to the other side where the "low" knob is set to another sized calibrated leak to atmosphere...so in this system the bottom port of the TIAL wastegate will see intake charge pipe pressure minus the amount of leak. Since the top port of the wastegate always sees atmosphere that is why the value keeps changing.

>You need an absolute type if you want this to be automatic in holding the same MAP regardless of altitude.

Can you PLEASE recommend a cost effective controller?
 
I just use a Norgren bleed type miniature air regulator plumbed from upper deck pressure to the top wastegate chamber. You need to give it a couple clicks every 2000 feet of so to maintain the desired MAP at WOT.

If you want it all automatic and electronic, I'm not sure where to point you. The majority of electronic wastegate controllers I am aware of are designed for ground based applications and don't use absolute referenced pressure sensors unfortunately. Some may but it could be hard to find out which ones those are.
 
>I just use a Norgren bleed type miniature air regulator plumbed from upper deck pressure to the top wastegate chamber.

That is an interesting idea...

So the Norgren regulator is the kind device that paint shops have and this attaches to an air compressor and the guy turns the knob to adjust the output pressure to a certain value and as the air compressor goes up and down some the output remains the same? Other than the needle and seat is there some other mechanics inside the regulator to adjust for changes in output pressure of the air compressor?

So to understand...do you have your wastegate plumbed up like this:

-Wastegate bottom port connected by a hose directly to the charge pipe

-Wastegate top port connected by hose that runs to the cockpit where the Norgren mini regulator is located and then there is a second hose routed from the Norgren back to the tcharge pipe?

I presume you have the Norgren gauge visible on the panel somewhere?

THANKS AGAIN!!!
 
>I just use a Norgren bleed type miniature air regulator plumbed from upper deck pressure to the top wastegate chamber.

That is an interesting idea...

So the Norgren regulator is the kind device that paint shops have and this attaches to an air compressor and the guy turns the knob to adjust the output pressure to a certain value and as the air compressor goes up and down some the output remains the same? Other than the needle and seat is there some other mechanics inside the regulator to adjust for changes in output pressure of the air compressor?

So to understand...do you have your wastegate plumbed up like this:

-Wastegate bottom port connected by a hose directly to the charge pipe

-Wastegate top port connected by hose that runs to the cockpit where the Norgren mini regulator is located and then there is a second hose routed from the Norgren back to the tcharge pipe?

I presume you have the Norgren gauge visible on the panel somewhere?

THANKS AGAIN!!!

I've used an R07-200-RNKA regulator.

Lower WG chamber plumbed to charge pipe.

Charge pipe feeds pressure side of regulator, discharge side of regulator to top WG chamber.

Reg will add air pressure to top WG chamber as you dial it in. This will be in addition to spring pressure so the lowest MAP you can have will be whatever the spring pressure is.

In my aircraft, I use throttle to limit MAP to 35 inches for TO (WG spring gives me about 40 inches otherwise). As I climb, I keep advancing the throttle until it's WOT at around 9500 feet to maintain that 35 inches. Above this altitude, I can start screwing in the regulator knob to maintain 35 inches. Every couple thousand feet adjust a bit.

Coming back down, just remember to screw it out again or you may get a surprise on a go around at high throttle.
 
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