What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

Questions before starting

hacks4hobbs

I'm New Here
Hello everyone! Long time lurker of the forums, long time drooling over RVs. Over the last year or so (after getting my private ticket back in Sept'19) I've been thinking pretty hard about starting an RV project. I went from thinking "no way I'd trust myself to fly in something I made" to "well everyone says it's possible, so let's try!" Thanks to COVID and such, our local EAA chapter hasn't been meeting, so I haven't been able to get involved there. Hopefully they pick back up here mid September.

I've been toiling with which RV would fit my wants the best, I was first super interested with the -10, probably like most. After being honest with my budget, time frame (which is undefined, but I could see myself taking 7+ years on it), and overall use of the aircraft; I think I've settled (for now at least) that a two seat version is what I want. I'm really hoping I enjoy the build process, if I do, I see myself building more than one in a life time. So that left me between the 14 & 12. I was convinced the 14 was the ride to have, but it seemed if one day I wanted to build a 10 the 14 is a lot of airplane (time and cost wise). At the end of the day, I want to build, and fly something cheaper than a certified aircraft for now. My mission will likely change in 10 years, and if I've finished a plane by then, I can entertain other silly thoughts. I'm also in a flying club locally that has access to 2 Archers and 1 Saratoga. Don't have enough hours or endorsements to fly the Saratoga yet. So cost & seat wise, I'm less inclined to hunt for a 4 seat right now. Our family will be 5 deep here soon, so the 6 place is likely the main traveler for the family when the time comes for that.

I'm about 99% certain the 12 is the plane to start with. But there are a few questions that I'd love to get some input on:

1. The mogas ability is pretty exciting. However, flying around SD, there are virtually no airports that serve the fuel on the ramp. There may be some, but I haven't run across them. How do folks tend to get around this? Fly with empty 5 gallon containers and grab a courtesy car and shove them in the trunk to the nearest gas station? Or do most find the range do-able for their mission? For perspective, living in SD and traveling across the state by air is about 275 NM one way, so you might make it one leg, but the return trip will require a fuel stop.
2. Pretty rotax dumb (well, engine dumb for the most part), but is it possible to run mogas then 100LL on the same trip (as a follow up to #1). Based on what I could find researching the googles, It seems there is a lead concern with Rotax and 100L at times, but some folks do even mix 50/50 if they can't find high enough octane mogas locally. Others mention oil change intervals just need to change between using the two. If it's fine to start with 20 gallons of mogas, fly for a bit, then top off with 100L, my above concerns are pretty much gone.
3. Anyone have reports on the soft field performance / abilities of the 12? Currently only 5 minutes away from the local airport (which is paved and all), but have the dreams of having my own grass strip one day. Would be awesome to store the plane at home on the acreage and fly off a grass strip (when its not under water).
4. Anyone know of builders in the East SD, NW IA, or W MN building? Since EAA hasn't been meeting or doing events, finding local builders is challenging. Our flight club (to my knowledge) doesn't have anyone building, but we also haven't all met in person yet this year, and I joined late December of last year.

I have a few personal goals to check off the list (and house chores) before I can make the dive. I'm currently planning on doing my tool order here soon (have the tool box project) & emp order come the new year. Figured it'd be a stain on such a happy project to start it in such a sour year :)

Much thanks in advance for reading! Look forward to hopefully posting more as a builder in the near future.
 
I own an RV-12 and have flown it 300 hours in the last 2 1/2 years. When I am at my home airport, I use auto fuel. I have four, 5 gallon cans. I am an old guy so I only put 4 gallons in each one. I have a rule that I never land with less than 5 gallons of fuel so having 16 gallons of fuel in my hangar will always fill the tank. The fuel I can get has ethanol in it and that is fine. When I go somewhere, I put 100LL in it. I carry a bottle of Decanol with me and put in whenever I add 100LL. I have landed on several grass strips with no problem. I don't have the wheel pants on my airplane, but when I did, I landed on grass with them. It is a great airplane and in my opinion you can go wrong with an RV-12.
 
Zac, welcome aboard the good ship VAF:D
o/ Hey mike. Thanks for the welcome!

I own an RV-12 and have flown it 300 hours in the last 2 1/2 years. When I am at my home airport, I use auto fuel. I have four, 5 gallon cans. I am an old guy so I only put 4 gallons in each one. I have a rule that I never land with less than 5 gallons of fuel so having 16 gallons of fuel in my hangar will always fill the tank. The fuel I can get has ethanol in it and that is fine. When I go somewhere, I put 100LL in it. I carry a bottle of Decanol with me and put in whenever I add 100LL. I have landed on several grass strips with no problem. I don't have the wheel pants on my airplane, but when I did, I landed on grass with them. It is a great airplane and in my opinion you can go wrong with an RV-12.
Much appreciated, John. I look forward to getting the garage setup for working in SD in the winter and getting that kit order in to start off 2021 (if all goes well with the rest of the year).
 
My -12 time is very similar to pilotyoung's - I bought mine from the builder about 3 years ago and have about 300 hours on it. I got it when I was about half way through training after getting an intro flight in one; absolutely no regrets. It's a nice, very easy to fly little plane that's great for local flights and a reasonable cross-country machine (I've done CA to WI 3 times now).
 
I live in eastern sd and fly off my private strip on my acreage. I have 1060 hours on my RV 12 all off grass strip.

I sent you a private message maybe I can help.


Brad Stiefvater
 
Just a precaution…. I think Van’s is working on a fix for weak U-bolt mounting on aluminum gear channel for legacy RV-12. My guess is that the fix will incorporate an improved doubler to spread forces and stress around AN5 washer/bolt. Until fix is available it is best practice to inspect aluminum gear channel frequently for developing cracks. I operate from grass strip exclusively and noticed crack propagation in the aluminum gear channel at 550TT.

 
I addressed this years ago with the fix by Vans for the front bolts . Are you talking about the rear or front bolt holes.

Brad
 
At the end of the day, I want to build, and fly something cheaper than a certified aircraft for now.

I’m at the same stage and similar line of thinking (minus kids). I’d love a -14, but I can’t see myself coming up with the extra $80k to build one over the -12. The -12 prices similar to decently equipped spam cans, but anyone can build it and get to know every rivet in it during the process. Get the “iST” package and you can get your instrument and commercial tickets in it.

Another option is to wait a couple years and see if your mission comes more into focus. I’m doing that thinking what feels doable for me as a 100 hour pilot may change when I’m a 300 hour one.

Also the RV-15 could be out by then and offer that mid-point between the 12 and 14 in capability and time/ease of construction. If you do that, just buy a -150, build time and swap it for the kit of your choice.

The Rotax will run just fine with a mix of 100LL and MOGAS. That said, there are plenty of industrious people who will take the courtesy car to the local gas station and haul in premium unleaded (if only it was unethanoled too but that’s another story).

The -12 is a great plane. Sometimes it may not seem that way when people compare it to other RVs on this forum, rightfully so in that case. However, it is far and away better than any spam can you trained in or could own at the same price point.
 
I addressed this years ago with the fix by Vans for the front bolts . Are you talking about the rear or front bolt holes.

Brad

Both rear bolt holes (L-R) developed cracks. Front mounting holes had no cracks.

I did SB 12-11-09 Center Section Modification @ 200TT. No visible cracks at that time...
 
Last edited:
I built this and use it at my home for fueling boats, mowers, tractors etc (see attached image). The local oil company will come out and fill it with no-ethanol premium at pump price with just a telephone call. It's on wheels (I build the carrier frame myself), so I could (and have) drive it to the gas station to fill, but that's not going to be a DOT-approved activity, nor is it likely to be particularly safe. I don't know if your airport would allow keeping such a container with 120 gallons of gasoline in your hangar, but filling an airplane out of 5 gallon cans strikes me as being a no-go. This thing is powered by a 12-volt battery on a tender and will fill the 60 gallon tank on my boat in a few minutes.

ETA: here's a more elegant option https://www.gastrailer.com/
 

Attachments

  • tank.JPG
    tank.JPG
    88 KB · Views: 144
Last edited:
My -12 time is very similar to pilotyoung's - I bought mine from the builder about 3 years ago and have about 300 hours on it. I got it when I was about half way through training after getting an intro flight in one; absolutely no regrets. It's a nice, very easy to fly little plane that's great for local flights and a reasonable cross-country machine (I've done CA to WI 3 times now).

Awesome! That's good to hear, CA to WI is quite the haul. I don't think I'd leave a foot print of about 500 miles, but you never know.

Just a precaution…. I think Van’s is working on a fix for weak U-bolt mounting on aluminum gear channel for legacy RV-12. My guess is that the fix will incorporate an improved doubler to spread forces and stress around AN5 washer/bolt. Until fix is available it is best practice to inspect aluminum gear channel frequently for developing cracks. I operate from grass strip exclusively and noticed crack propagation in the aluminum gear channel at 550TT.
Good to know! I'll file that one in "future me" category if I ever get to the point of caring about it :D

I’m at the same stage and similar line of thinking (minus kids). I’d love a -14, but I can’t see myself coming up with the extra $80k to build one over the -12. The -12 prices similar to decently equipped spam cans, but anyone can build it and get to know every rivet in it during the process. Get the “iST” package and you can get your instrument and commercial tickets in it.

Another option is to wait a couple years and see if your mission comes more into focus. I’m doing that thinking what feels doable for me as a 100 hour pilot may change when I’m a 300 hour one.

Also the RV-15 could be out by then and offer that mid-point between the 12 and 14 in capability and time/ease of construction. If you do that, just buy a -150, build time and swap it for the kit of your choice.

The Rotax will run just fine with a mix of 100LL and MOGAS. That said, there are plenty of industrious people who will take the courtesy car to the local gas station and haul in premium unleaded (if only it was unethanoled too but that’s another story).

The -12 is a great plane. Sometimes it may not seem that way when people compare it to other RVs on this forum, rightfully so in that case. However, it is far and away better than any spam can you trained in or could own at the same price point.

I totally hear this, I'm honestly more interested in the build at the moment than I am the end result (obviously a flying plane is desired). But having something to build as a hobby is a huge motivator.

As much as I love the certified world, it's honestly just too expensive. I don't think building is going to save me much money, but I'll feel invested that way. I really enjoy flying our club aircraft, but my biggest complaint there is not everyone has the same standards and practices. Small things add up to be rather annoying thing in a larger club of people. Nothing against clubs, mine, or sharing in general though. Getting some good flying experience and time in for less $$ per hour is pretty exciting though.

I built this and use it at my home for fueling boats, mowers, tractors etc (see attached image). The local oil company will come out and fill it with no-ethanol premium at pump price with just a telephone call. It's on wheels (I build the carrier frame myself), so I could (and have) drive it to the gas station to fill, but that's not going to be a DOT-approved activity, nor is it likely to be particularly safe. I don't know if your airport would allow keeping such a container with 120 gallons of gasoline in your hangar, but filling an airplane out of 5 gallon cans strikes me as being a no-go. This thing is powered by a 12-volt battery on a tender and will fill the 60 gallon tank on my boat in a few minutes.

ETA: here's a more elegant option https://www.gastrailer.com/

Yeah, I plan on swinging buy our local strip sometime in the next week to get a lay of the land for rules. I can't imagine they'll be excited about something like that, but who knows, small towns. I'm hoping to secure a hangar here in the next 6-8 months as they are expanding and some folks are moving out of the current community ones.

Thanks all for the input, hands down one of the best Internet communities left!
 
I built this and use it at my home for fueling boats, mowers, tractors etc (see attached image). The local oil company will come out and fill it with no-ethanol premium at pump price with just a telephone call. It's on wheels (I build the carrier frame myself), so I could (and have) drive it to the gas station to fill, but that's not going to be a DOT-approved activity, nor is it likely to be particularly safe. I don't know if your airport would allow keeping such a container with 120 gallons of gasoline in your hangar, but filling an airplane out of 5 gallon cans strikes me as being a no-go. This thing is powered by a 12-volt battery on a tender and will fill the 60 gallon tank on my boat in a few minutes.

ETA: here's a more elegant option https://www.gastrailer.com/

VERY elegant at over $8,000.00.............:eek:
 
RV-12 Use Mogas and 100 LL

I'm on my second RV-12 and mix fuels without concern of proportion especially after the Rotax guy said that was a great combination. I have gravitated to mostly 92/No ethenol mogas just because of fewer oil changes. The RV-12 is an amazing airplane for training and fun flying without a particular schedule.
 
Back
Top