What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

Request for help: removing D-Sub pins

Draker

Well Known Member
Removing D-Sub pins is frustrating

If anyone in the Bay Area is good at removing those little high density D-sub pins and is willing to help a crazed man out over the weekend, let me know--you got a 6-pack of your favorite beverage waiting for you in return. I've bent 3 or 4 of those cheesy flimsy extractor tools and have not even gotten one pin out. No amount of wiggling will get any tool around those little pins. I'm ready to cut the wires and order new connectors at this point. So frustrating. :mad: :mad: :mad: If you have the proper tool/technique and can help a brother out, please send a PM. I'd be grateful.

EDIT: Took a deep breath, drank the beer myself, and went at it again. I took one of my least-mangled tools and ground down the end of the "insertion" end until it looked kind of like the extractor, and was able to get em out with that. Still, what a pain!

Off-topic gotcha:

If you're connecting a WAAS GPS to a Garmin GTR 45R transponder, do NOT use RS-232 port 4 on the transponder! It doesn't support GPS/ADS-B. You need to use either port 2 or 3. I couldn't find this fact in Garmin's docs but G3Xpert confirmed it over E-mail (Garmin's E-mail support is fantastic by the way).
 
Last edited:
Hints

Get the tool with the metal band.
Sometimes you have to push the contact in than back out to get the tool to do its thing.
 
Yep, pretty sure they make those almost impossible to get out as a way to train you to do it once! Besides the fact that those little pins are expensive.

I don't think the plastic gadgets are the best tool, there are better ones out there made of steel.

In the mean time, try pushing in gently on the wire as you push the tool in around the prongs on the connector until you get them retracted. Only takes three hands :D

Take a look at this writeup...

http://aeroelectric.com/articles/D-Sub_Pin/Pin-Extraction.html
 
For the small size 22D pins, you're looking for a M81969/1-04 green/white tool

M81969%5E1-04.JPG


The regular size 20 pins use M81969/1-02, red/white.

As PilotjohnS says, get the ones with the metal ends; the plastic ones are pretty useless.
 
Yea I've gone through I don't know how many of those green/white tools with the metal tips. Even though they are metal they are still flimsy as heck, and never seem to fit. I consider these things wear items like drill bits and shop rags. Got another order of 5 more on the way from Stein. :(
 
Last edited:
One trick I have learned over the years is to insert the tool, then twirl it all the way around the pin/wire while pulling gently. At some point, it will release - most of the time. If not, walk away and come back to it later!
 
Extractor

The problem is getting the extractor to go down into the hole pass where the connector holds the pin. Once you get it pass that point it’s just a matter of pulling the extractor out while holding the wire. But it is a pita
 
For the small size 22D pins, you're looking for a M81969/1-04 green/white tool

M81969%5E1-04.JPG


The regular size 20 pins use M81969/1-02, red/white.

As PilotjohnS says, get the ones with the metal ends; the plastic ones are pretty useless.

And get them in bulk, or multiples
 
I find pushing the pin put with a paper clip at the same time as inserting the tool works really well.
 
D-SUB pin removal

Just went through this 2 nights ago for 2 hours!
Had to remove 4 high density D-SUB pins for removal of GARMIN 335 configuration module.
Watched the STEINAIR video and used the high density removal tool (green/white) provided by STEINAIR. DID NOT WORK! I think the problem was as another responder suggested was that the flimsy end of the removal portion would NOT get completely over the pin. Thus the pin could not be loosened.
I worked on the four pins for close to two hours No matter what I tried it would not work. Ultimately, the tiny wires from the configuration module pulled out of each of the four pins. At that point I was able to finally get the tool far enough in to loosen the pins somewhat. I then used a hemostat (surgical tool) to grab the pin from the connector side and push on that as I jiggled the removal tool over the pin. One by one I finally was able to get all four pins out. I will NEVER attempt this again. Hopefully I will not need to but if I do you can bet I am sending the harness to STEINAIR and let them do it!
 
Troubles

There are several problems that arise with d connectors and contact removal.
1) if the wire is too large of awg, or not the mil spec wire of the correct guage(awg), then the removal tool has a hard time getting past the wire insulation to the retention area.
2) if the wire was not stripped cleanly, then this excess insulation interferes with wire removal. One can twist the wire, or slide the tool around to try and get past the extra insulation
3) the tool needs to be pushed all the way in, while the pin is in the relaxed position. If the pin is being pulled out with tension, the tool will have a hard time spreading the tangs. once the tool is all the way in, then pull the tool out and the wire should come with.
4) there are two sides to the tool, the insertion side has a half moon shape. The removal side is about 3/4 to full circle. Make sure the correct side is being used.
5) sometimes it will take two or three tries of repositioning to get to the tangs.
6) make sure the wire goes up along the tool. The wire needs to come out straight with the tool surrounding it. It is best if the wire is laid in the tool all the way to the grip. This is another reason for harness strain relief on all connectors.

I say all these things, but on the last avionics I designed, I resorted to splicing the wires because I couldn’t remove the pins; but I designed it this way because of the special Wire I had to use. ( I designed it, its right, why would I ever need to remove pins? )
 
Re read his first post

If you re read his first post, he added a note. He took a break, drank the beer, modified an inserter to an extractor, and got it done.

Now that is what I call an experimenter. Way to go.

Brian
 
Last edited:
not just me

While I'm sorry you are struggling with this, I'm also happy to know it's not just me that has trouble getting these things out. After failing so many times, I learned to double and triple check my wiring to avoid having to remove them.
 
I have done a fair number of these with eventual success. They can be frustrating. I have always believed that it is important to understand your enemy.

Does someone have good drawings or very enlarged photos that show how the pin retention works?
 
Try this: put the pin extraction tool into an empty connector hole and mark the tool with a sharpie so you know when it's fully inserted . Sometimes the tool will snag on the end of the wire grip barrel. The extraction tool is a designed to slip over the wire grip barrel and push back the pin retention barbs molded into the plastic connector. THere is not a lot of clearance to slip the tool onto the wire grip barrel, so try wiggling the tool, rotating, and getting it just square to the hole and it should drop in up to the mark you made on the tool.

Sam
 
Last edited:
These are all great tips, thanks. I think the best advice is to plan ahead sufficiently so you never have to re-pin. I have 394 circuits in the plane and had to re-pin 6 of them (swapped RS-232s) so I think I came out ahead!
 
Ryan,

I was having the same problem with the high density pins. I knew there must be a better way. What I found was a reference to a TE/Amp 91285-1 extraction tool. Now that I have that tool it is no problem removing the pins. Do a web search. It cost me around $35 versus around $6 for the standard version. Worth every penny.
 
Isn't it curious how we each come up with our own methodology for using the extractors?

For instance, I make it a practice to NEVER rotate the tool when in the hole. That just bends the split end of the tool, ruins it and doesn't do any good. If I want to rotate the position of the tool I pull it completely out and then re-index it and push it back in. I used to rotate the tool at first and after talking to fellows who can extract them consistently I found out about the "never rotate" thing.

And I have settled on the standard green/metallic extractor as the best for me. I bought the TE/Amp 91285-1 extraction tool mentioned above and find it finicky with the metal alloy of the extractor easy to bend. Plus the set screw that attaches the extractor crushes it and there is the need to keep track of all the various attachments stored in the handle. Mine sits in my extractor box forlorn. Like I said if somebody finds the TE tool to be the ticket that's great as we all have different size hands, dexterity and what works for one builder may not work for the next. Or I'm just to clumsy to be left alone with one.

Also, if you have replacement pins/sockets for the wire end then just cut off the wire at the base of the pin. That makes the extractor work really good because you are not fighting the angle of the wire because there is none. Then the extractor goes right down and it usually works so well it will extract the pin with it's own friction. If not try squeezing the metal barrel of the extractor to make it clamp the pin. Then you can strip and re-pin the wire with a new contact if you are re-using the wire. That's way faster than trying to save the pin.

Speaking of fighting the wire, I try to make sure the wire lays into the open trench of the tool up to the plastic area. You can push in on the wire which will "relax" the pin. Then I try to clamp the extended wire within this groove with my thumb or forefinger which makes the wire straight for release/extraction while providing the friction necessary for pulling out the contact. Like riveting or safety wiring things get easier with experience.

To mitigate much of the headaches of pin extraction the initial installer can make sure there is a small amount of bare wire exposed at the base of the pins. That is per specification and if you instead crimp the pin right against the insulation you can have extraction trouble later. By a "small amount of bare wire" I am talking about something the length of the thickness of two pieces of notebook paper. If you expose too much bare wire that can cause other issues like shorting against adjacent pins. These connectors are designed to have this gap and it does provide better service in the field.

The original installer can also help things by making the wires enter the connector very straight without a lot of criss-crossing of other wires which makes the wires enter the connector at an angle when pinning. Take one more turn out of a twisted pair if needed. It's all within the shielded backshell so relax things a bit to makes things easier for the next guy.

Having spent hours of frustration cussing extractors when I first started with connector pins, I now do a good enough job to not hesitate de-pinning a whole D-Sub connector for maintenance or routing clearance.

And a I have to give a shout out to Pahan Ranasingha who taught the avionics installation course for experimental aircraft at the AEA. He had us work out on the extractors and gave us plenty of hints. I think that class was one of the best courses I have ever taken in my life. And lot of fun to boot.

Jim
 
Last edited:
I figured out about rotating the tool once inserted in the shell being a bad thing too. I think that is true no matter which tool you use. I pull the tool back rotate and reinsert too. That seems to do the trick.

It does seem to be easier if you can clip the wire. I only do this if there is enough length to allow grabbing onto the wire once it’s cut though.
 
I have sacrificed the D sub to save the pen/wire connections. Disassemble the connector as far as possible, then cut the remaining piece holding the pins. Not very elegant, I'll grant.
 
I managed to remove the little tiny metal retainer ring from the D-sub along with a pin once during my build. I didn't know what it was, I thought it broke off of the pin removal tool. Fortunately, I kept it long enough to figure out what it was. When I put the new pin into the D-sub, it didn't click into place. I figured I had damaged the D-sub beyond repair, until I remembered the little metal piece I had kept. I managed to insert it back into the D-sub and everything appeared to work out okay.
 
I managed to remove the little tiny metal retainer ring from the D-sub along with a pin once during my build. I didn't know what it was, I thought it broke off of the pin removal tool. Fortunately, I kept it long enough to figure out what it was. When I put the new pin into the D-sub, it didn't click into place. I figured I had damaged the D-sub beyond repair, until I remembered the little metal piece I had kept. I managed to insert it back into the D-sub and everything appeared to work out okay.

I have never seen a D-Sub that uses a separate locking clip for the contacts. I don't doubt it but I figure it must have been some special connector. That might make extraction easier if it doesn't require an extractor to release the internal locking nibs.
 
I have never seen a D-Sub that uses a separate locking clip for the contacts. I don't doubt it but I figure it must have been some special connector. That might make extraction easier if it doesn't require an extractor to release the internal locking nibs.

The retainer wasn't designed to come out. I am just very special and talented.
 
If you are curious about the retainer in the D-sub connectors...
Take a new connector and remove the metal housing surround. You will find the plastic insulator will split apart. Carefully look into the two halves. One of the pieces is populated with The small locking collars.

It is not common to have a defective collar, but it does happen from time to time. The most common failure mode I have seen is to populate a male pin with crimped wire. Inserting the wire/pin will feel normal as the tactile feel of the pin locking feels right and a gentle tug will confirm it is locked. Then when you join the connector to the matting connector the pin will push out.

Now you get to spend time trouble shooting that problem.
 
How do those work, please? Is there a video?

They are like a pair of tweezers. You pinch the handle to open the tip of the tool and clamp it over the wire. Once over the wire it slides down into the connector and releases the retaining clip.

It works similarly to the other tools posted in this thread but the tip is machined and much more rigid. It can take a little more strong arming than the other tools, but I find most of the time it doesn't require any; a little finesse goes a long way.

It was one of the tools that I paraded around the shop showing off to everyone that I know had cursed removing a d-sub in the past.
 
Thanks for the explanation, Aric. I may have to buy one of those since I never have had any luck with the red/white extractors. I'll tell the avionics tech at the FBO about them, too. Apparently there are different tools for #20, #22, and #24. Is that correct? At $70 a pop, that gets expensive.
 
Last edited:
Thanks for the explanation, Aric. I may have to buy one of those since I never have had any luck with the red/white extractors. I'll tell the avionics tech at the FBO about them, too. Apparently there are different tools for #20, #22, and #24. Is that correct? At $70 a pop, that gets expensive.

Their website has a good wizard for finding the tools required for various pins; I would start there.

https://www.dmctools.com/m39029-connector-and-contact-search/
 
And a I have to give a shout out to Pahan Ranasingha who taught the avionics installation course for experimental aircraft at the AEA. He had us work out on the extractors and gave us plenty of hints. I think that class was one of the best courses I have ever taken in my life. And lot of fun to boot.

Jim

Agreed!! :D
 
And a I have to give a shout out to Pahan Ranasingha who taught the avionics installation course for experimental aircraft at the AEA. He had us work out on the extractors and gave us plenty of hints. I think that class was one of the best courses I have ever taken in my life. And lot of fun to boot.

Jim

+1 Here. A really worthwhile course for anyone building, even if you have no intention if doing your own panel.

My comment to this thread is that if you are bending the metal green tool, you are using wayyyy too much muscle. Removing sub-d pins is a finesse task requiring you to feel the tool as it slips in. I never twist the tool once it is inserted. If the tool and pin don't come out together after gently, but with firmness inserting and tugging both together, I rotate a quarter turn and try again. Once I find the correct rotation all of the pins will come out with the same orientation.
 
Another day struggling with un-pinning D-sub pins. Managed to pull out a few wires without the pins budging from their sockets. Can these things be safely drilled out or something, or will I be buying a new housing from Garmin?

Definitely one of the the most frustrating parts of the build.
 
Another day struggling with un-pinning D-sub pins. Managed to pull out a few wires without the pins budging from their sockets. Can these things be safely drilled out or something, or will I be buying a new housing from Garmin?

Definitely one of the the most frustrating parts of the build.

Keep at it. I pull on the wire, push the sleeve down to the bottom then alternate between pulling the wire and pushing in on the sleeve. Change your technique to see what will work. Do it on the bench if you have spares. If the wire has pulled out, the tool should release the terminal and it can be pushed out from the opposite side.

It is a battle until you get the hang of it. Like a perfect wheel landing.
 
Last edited:
Found something that worked: Inserted 0.032 safety wire into the socket and pushed the thing through rather than pulling it by the wire ends.
 
It is frustrating

This spring, I swapped out my 430 for a 355 (love the 355). I had the brilliant idea that I would save time by pulling the pins from the 430 HD connectors, instead of cutting the harness and installing new pins. I got it done - but it was a bad, bad idea. Took me several days, cramped hands, and I went thru 3 tools I bought from Stein. I walked away, and took a break, when I got a really stubborn one. I didn't know about the DMC tools, maybe that would have helped. I also learned the wire size & type is important (as others have mentioned). And as I recall, there were some special pins for power, that the 430 install manual says - only way to remove them is to cut the wire.....
 
Here is another tip to make the blue, red, green plastic/metal insert/removal tools work. I'm only using them for removal. Inserting is easy by just pushing on the wire (at least for the wires i'm using)

I've noticed that the two ends of the extractor side were too close to each other. That way they would never slip past the pin to open the latch no matter how you twist and turn it. I used a knife blade to make open the gap slightly to widen them just a tiny bit bigger than the pin hole. You would need to compress them a little to insert but that's easy. Slips past the pins and unlocks them much easier that way.
 
D-SUB extraction

Check with Steinair.com for their extraction tool:

Daniels DMC Extraction Tool, Size 20 Contacts
SKU: DRK145

Daniels also makes one for DH.

They just work!!
 
Back
Top