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Vortex Generators

UrbanM

Active Member
Dear 6ers,
While talking with an RV4 owner over the weekend he brought up the subject of VGs. At one time he put VGs on the inboard wing and experimented a bit but later removed them because he thought they made the plane float on landing (his conclusion, not mine).
This got me to thinking about installing VGs on my 6A. I found an affordable set https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/stolspeed.php
At AS&S.
I've seen kits online in the 400 dollar range and most claim improvement in low speed handling and reduction in stall speed. I have also read about using turbulator tape for gliders with similar effect. My sailplane is covered with this stuff and I keep a roll handy for repairs or replacement. I know some RVs use turbulator tape on the tail but has anyone tried this on the top of a wing? Also, any real world experience with the AS turbulators?
Thanks
Kirk

RV12 Sold
RV6A Flying
 
I would recommend following the VG mfgr's installation instructions carefully.

JMHO: Putting VG's inboard but not outboard on the main wing is not particularly safe, in that you may stall one outboard wing while the inboard is still flying, a recipe for abrupt spin entry.

Instead, you always want the inboard wing to stall first, so that you retain some aileron control authority as stall initiates. Hence, better to install VG's outboard only, or on the entire wing, as is typically recommended.

And, once VG's are installed on the main wing, you normally want them on the tail as well, so you can retain control authority down to the roughly 9% lower stall speeds that you now have on the main wing.

-Paragon
Cincinnati, OH
 
Turbulator tapes on sailplanes are put in different places, for different purposes than VGs on wings.

The 23013.5 airfoil on RV 3/4/6/7/8 is famous for having a very sharp stall. We don't notice this on RVs because the aspect ratio is low and the rectangular wing stalls inboard first and has a gradual progression of stall area, even if each section stalls abruptly. It is likely that VGs would soften the stall some, probably make the airplane 'float' as described. Not saying that is good or bad.

There is likely to be a penalty in top speed, probably a good fraction of the gain in low speed. So you are just shifting the whole airplane performance curve slower.
 
VGs For The Masses

When are they going to vortex alternators? Sorry.

Kitplanes did an article a while back about an RV-6 owner experimenting with VGs on his plane. They did a little, but very little. I’ve never installed any. I’ve seen them go on airplanes from time to time and have never heard of any owner say they made a huge difference, although most report modest improvements in reduced stall speeds and improved handling. One thing I’ve never seen discussed is, I think they’d make it harder to wash the airplane. I’ve never seen or read of an improvement in cruise speed or top speed. I’ve been around the block a few times and I put VGs in the fad department, with various scientific wingtips, t-tails, blimps and curb feelers. Sexy, fun to talk about and experiment with, but in the end, not very useful for our airplanes.
 
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I know several guys who have installed VGs on their Bonanzas. Most have removed them. Performance gains were not significant and washing the plane became hazardous to fingers.
 
I know several guys who have installed VGs on their Bonanzas. Most have removed them. Performance gains were not significant and washing the plane became hazardous to fingers.

It's a popular add to Barons as it seems to help low-speed and especially engine out handling. As you note, not much help for Bonanzas. When I bought a Bonanza I ruled out any with VGs for the reason you mention and I think they look hideous.

On an RV, with good low speed handling and low-ish stall speeds, not sure what real advantage there might be (need to read the Kitplanes article - I may change my mind after that!)
 
If you put vgs on a tailwheel airplane and they work, then the airplane will stall at a higher aoa. I expect for most rvs that will mean hitting the tailwheel first. It could also mean running out if aft stick at fwd cg. A good airplane design means everything is matched. Landing gear, tail size, cg range etc.if you then go changing one thing without changing the other things there is a good chance things won’t work anymore.

Supercub stol guys started adding slats to their airplanes and discovered they needed to change several other major things to make them work, like the gear and the tail.

Extending the stall range inboard is a very bad idea. You might drive the outboard wing to stall first, leading to a loss of roll control at the stall. Please don’t play with areodynamic mods without taking appropriate safety precautions and consulting with qualified people. Knowitall pilots at the coffee shop are not necessarily qualified people.
 
I installed the Stolspeed VG kit on my RV-6A. Reduced stall speeds from 52 mph to 49 mph power off, and power on went down to 47 mph. I feel the plane is safer to fly. I haven't noticed any reduction in top speed, but my RV is very basic with O320 and wood FP prop. They look a little funny, but for me it was well worth the small ($100) investment and time to install. There is a great review on the STOLspeed site from another RV-6 owner. I followed his installation instructions.
 
If you put vgs on a tailwheel airplane and they work, then the airplane will stall at a higher aoa. I expect for most rvs that will mean hitting the tailwheel first.
Add to that the fact that the -6 will hit the tail first already, even with full flaps, if you're landing in 3-point and hit the stall buzzer just before you touch down. The last thing i'd want is to be able to increase the AOA at this point. When I have three wheels on the ground I want it to stop flying ASAP.

(and on top of that it would be next to impossible to maintain the polished wing with VG's on it...)
 
I've often landed tailwheel first , but not in a RV. When the tailwheel touches down the AOA reduces immediately so there is no tendency to bounce.
If my tailwheel touches first I feel I've done a good landing!
Cheers
Mike
RV-6 in process
 
I've often landed tailwheel first , but not in a RV. When the tailwheel touches down the AOA reduces immediately so there is no tendency to bounce.
Check back once you've actually tried it in your -6. :)

Note also that there are a number of -6's out there with visible wrinkles in the skins between the last two fuselage bulkheads from too many tailwheel first hard landings because they're trying to stall it onto the runway.
 
our Exp.

.... We installed a set on a customers RV-9A and did a bit of testing to see the changes
if any we could detect. The stall speed went down a couple of miles an hour at the very
most. This particular aircraft model has such a low stall speed, the gains if any were
almost undetectable. Its top speed dropped three miles per hour, and the customer said
that was unacceptable for him, as he had gone to great lengths, and considerable expense,
to up the efficiency and speed of his airplane. He also said when cleaning and washing his
aircraft, it was akin to bathing a mad porcupine. He came back and ask us to de-horn
his plane, and return it to its prior condition. This process caused a bit of paint damage
that he, needless to say wasn't very happy about. :(
 
.... We installed a set on a customers RV-9A and did a bit of testing to see the changes
if any we could detect. The stall speed went down a couple of miles an hour at the very
most. This particular aircraft model has such a low stall speed, the gains if any were
almost undetectable. Its top speed dropped three miles per hour, and the customer said
that was unacceptable for him, as he had gone to great lengths, and considerable expense,
to up the efficiency and speed of his airplane. He also said when cleaning and washing his
aircraft, it was akin to bathing a mad porcupine. He came back and ask us to de-horn
his plane, and return it to its prior condition. This process caused a bit of paint damage
that he, needless to say wasn't very happy about. :(

No need to fix something that ain’t broke!
 
Thanks for all the responses! The goal was never to increase the AOA at touch down. I my buddy's case he noticed the wool tufts near the wing root were being blown backwards in the flare and thought it would be interesting to see if this airflow could be improved. I've flown a few factory and kit types that have benefited from VGs both with performance and or handling but proper placement is key.
I have to laugh about the cleaning difficulties. This is why I am looking at the plastic VGs so I don't get cut to bad if I run up against one:D. Anyone who has waxed a glider can vouch for being careful around turbulator tape and the blow holes (I just run a bead of tape over them till I'm done)
Thanks again!
 
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