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Replacing G496 with G660 - Issues?

BigJohn

Well Known Member
Thinking it might be time to replace the 496 that came with the kit in 2010 with the touch screen 660. Ah, the lure of a new toy. 😬

Looking for advice from anyone who has done this. Any special problems or issues with physical mounting, electrical hookup, interface with the venerable D180? Tips and tricks?
 
Here you go!

Will have more later, busy right now. But its easy Peazy. And it way better than the 496!;)

36900749283_0dc3d69c5d_c.jpg
 
I recently made a mount for the 660 in my RV-8 so that I can use it to display ADS-B data from my new GTX-345, and it's a very nice replacement for the 496 - as long as you are comfortable not having XM weather anymore. Great display, logic the same as the rest of the touch screen Garmin equipment, and much more modern than the 496. Very nice unit.

Of course, for full disclosure, I still have an original 696 in the cockpit (because I do a lot of testing) ... but I find that I am rarely even acknowledging the boot screen on some flights anymore....
 
You can have Sirius/XM weather with the aera 660. Add a GDL-51 or GDL-51R to a configuration like Paul's (GTX 345/45R) or if you already have a GDL 39. This will add Sirius/XM weather and traffic.

If you are starting from scratch, don't have an existing GDL 39 or GTX 345/45R or want the replace an existing GDL 39 all together then you could go with the GDL 52/52R that provides 5 types of information in one, FIS-B, TIS-B, Sirius Weather and Sirius Music along with attitude through it's built-in AHRS. And the GDL-52 wiring, harness and antenna are connecto-compatible with an existing GDL-39. Also, when paired with a Garmin portable like the aera 660, 796, 696 etc, neither the GDL 39 or 52 need a view of the sky or a separate external GPS antenna as the Garmin portable will provide it with GPS position. This means that these Garmin portable ADS-B recievers can be installed out of sight for a neat integrated look when paired with an aera.

Since you mention pairing the 660 with a Dynon you would want to get two accessory cables. The "bare wire data" cable for the aera 660 and the "bare wire data" cable for the GDL 39/5x. These cables will give you all the proper wires, colored per the installation instructions for integrating the GDL to aera along with the RS232 channel(s) to your Dynon and/or radio able to accept SL-40 protocol for standby frequency loading from the aera.
You can't try to cut any corners here by reusing the included power cable or any of the direct GDL to aera data cables with cigarette lighter ends. Garmin thwarted that sort of thing by leaving out channels and randomizing the wire color codes in any cable, except for the bare wire data cables. Which shouldn't be surprise any of us. So just spend the extra $55 each for the bare cables up front. I don't have any experience or specific instructions for the Dynon integration or settings or whether this would even be an option.

If you fly multiple aircraft then get a GLD 52 and install extra quick-release base mounts in each aircraft. I am currently planning to do just that, replacing my current GDL-39 3D with a back-ordered GDL-52 with 3 extra mounts. On my fleet I unplug the USB connector and ADS-B coax from the GDL and then quick release the unit from the mount and slap it into the other aicraft. One subscription many airframes. Woola.

Jim
 
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John, Start with this thread link below and work through it at your leisure to become completely familiar with the 660. You can just start with the GPS then over time add accessories as you want. Its currently $750 but Im sure there will be black friday deals after Thanksgiving at Aircraftspruce and Sportys. Maybe $50 off with free shipping. The screen is the same size as a iPhone 6,7 plus. Also the touch screen feature is just as good as the iPhone or Android. Further more it is much easier to update software and data bases. Go back and look at the wiring diagram for the 496 then add another in-out serial port and that is the basic wiring for the 660. You can use the same wiring setup that is for the 496 except you have to use the bare wire mount as stated earlier in the thread. Didn't hook up the audio so can't speak to that part. Before the 660 I had a 796 and the audio in that unit caused white noise in the system that couldn't be corrected. I suspect the the 660 audio will work fine.


http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=135203&page=28
 
Purposely underutilize 660 adsb capability, but wanted a quieter removeable hand held. I replaced the panel mounted 496 with a 660, choose to keep it a simple gizmo removeable stand alone, with battery and cigar lighter powered, to have less noise. The 496 antenna and wiring were noise sources or at least conduits. Quieter now. Use Foreflight and stratus for adsb in and dynon for adsb out capability nice seeing The traffic on a multisizeable screen, not too congested. I found a way to mod the older center panel to fit the air gizmo without removing the throttle, choke, heater cables. I rely on dynon and primarily set the 660 on nearest and have it for flight instrument/6 pack/ battery powered back up.

What do you fellows think about this concept?

I say if you aren't getting noise and got bucks then upgrade to dynon with adsb in and out . The 660 is still a small environment with all that capability and a real challenge in bumpy air to push small buttons etc....

Doug in IL
 
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Reviving an old thread, but, it fits my problem...

I recently completed a panel upgrade in my RV-8 which included replacing my 496 with a Aera 660. The rest of the panel is dual G5s, GNX375 plus GMC507 autopilot system. The original 496 was mounted to the panel in a Gizmo mount with hard wire connections and was quiet as a mouse, no interference noise at all. Not so with the Aera 660, it's noisy! It's also mounted to the panel using the bare wire connections; it took a few minutes of detective work to narrow it down to the 660, but once I figured that out, then to determine, what's the source? Power, audio or RS232 data?

I'm using both of the 660's 232 data ports to the G5s and the 375; I switched off the ports but the noise remained. Yesterday while in the hangar I disconnected the 660 audio feed to the audio panel... aha! Silence! I was happy up until I started the engine and the noise was back, although a lesser amount. Well, cr@p! So it's not the 232 data (or is it?) and the audio is disconnected, so what's left? Power. The noise does rise/fall with RPM, so, alternator power noise I guess? And how the heck do I fix it? The bare wire connector was cut fairly short in my install since the -8 has a compact panel; there is shielding in the connector but I only used about 6" of that wire before opening it up to tie into the the 232 and power leads. So, anyone else run into this and how to fix it?

I noticed an older thread from 2012 with similar issues on the 796.
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=87737&highlight=796+noise

Garmin, if you're watching, why so noisy? How do we fix it??
 
Is the 660 better to see in sunlight than the 560? I have a 496 and was going to replace it with a aera560 I also have but in the RV8, between the sunlight and my eyes, using the 496 is a better choice for me.
 
FYI - during panel upgrade #2, IIRC, I clipped all the wires on my 496 and reconnected them with a DB9 connector. I did this in preparation for installing a 660, which I still haven't done.

I do need to call Stein and order one along with a new AirGizmo Panel Dock.

It is my understanding that externally it is the same size as the 496 panel dock I currently have installed. Can any of you verify this?
 
Reviving an old thread, but, it fits my problem...

I recently completed a panel upgrade in my RV-8 which included replacing my 496 with a Aera 660. The rest of the panel is dual G5s, GNX375 plus GMC507 autopilot system. The original 496 was mounted to the panel in a Gizmo mount with hard wire connections and was quiet as a mouse, no interference noise at all. Not so with the Aera 660, it's noisy! It's also mounted to the panel using the bare wire connections; it took a few minutes of detective work to narrow it down to the 660, but once I figured that out, then to determine, what's the source? Power, audio or RS232 data?

I'm using both of the 660's 232 data ports to the G5s and the 375; I switched off the ports but the noise remained. Yesterday while in the hangar I disconnected the 660 audio feed to the audio panel... aha! Silence! I was happy up until I started the engine and the noise was back, although a lesser amount. Well, cr@p! So it's not the 232 data (or is it?) and the audio is disconnected, so what's left? Power. The noise does rise/fall with RPM, so, alternator power noise I guess? And how the heck do I fix it? The bare wire connector was cut fairly short in my install since the -8 has a compact panel; there is shielding in the connector but I only used about 6" of that wire before opening it up to tie into the the 232 and power leads. So, anyone else run into this and how to fix it?

I noticed an older thread from 2012 with similar issues on the 796.
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=87737&highlight=796+noise

Garmin, if you're watching, why so noisy? How do we fix it??

Hey John,

So when you are sitting in the hangar, you hear the audio interference, and upon removing the audio line from the 660, the noise disappears completely, until you start the engine, when the same noise shows back up?

When you disconnected the audio line, did you remove the wiring completely? What audio panel are you using?

Thanks,

Justin
 
Hey John,

So when you are sitting in the hangar, you hear the audio interference, and upon removing the audio line from the 660, the noise disappears completely, until you start the engine, when the same noise shows back up?

When you disconnected the audio line, did you remove the wiring completely? What audio panel are you using?

Thanks Justin,

Yep, in the hangar, electrics powered up and headset on, there was lots of static type noise, snap-crackle-pop. I then pulled the 660 audio (Left channel) wire from the audio panel and all went blissfully quiet... but upon starting the engine, the noise was back. It wasn't quite as bad as before, but still annoying. Powering up for taxi/takeoff, the noise amped up a bit.

I don't have a true audio panel, but an AP-60 Audio Mixer linked below; it's a mono unit, so I just have the 660 audio Left channel to the AP-60, R is unused, Common is grounded at the AP-60. I didn't remove all the audio wiring, just pulled the L channel wire and capped it.
http://www.fdatasystems.com/ap-60-audio-mixer

If it's the power lead, does that mean I gotta run a shielded power line now? What a bummer this is considering the old 496 in an identical installation was dead quiet compared to the 660...

Thanks!
 
John. Have you tried attaching the bare wire cable shielding to its own ground wire? That's what Garmin does internally in their cables at the bare wire end. But if you cut the length of the Garmin cable down the connection of the shield to the ground wire is lost. So solder a jumper wire to the shielding and then connect it to the ground wire. If you already tried this and it still gives noise try connecting the shield to the DSub connector backshell on the audio mixer. If your backshell doesn't have a convenient location for this then put a ring terminal on the shield jumper wire the same size as the retaining screws on the Dsub connector and sandwich it between the connector and audio mixer using one of the thumbscrews as you attach the connector. If you disassemble the backshell you can also put the ring terminal on the top of the same mounting screw which is a better long-term solution since it stays together without confusing the next guy.

Also, if you have been trying different connections to the shielding already and haven't tried it without the shield "open" meaning not connected to anything then by all means try that too. I had that happen one time in an airplane on a LEMO plug installation. Nothing worked well until I clipped the shield drain wire. Go figure.

Jim
 
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Try installing a ground loop isolator between the GPS and your audio panel.
Van's supplied one with the original D180 kit.
Search Van's Aircraft store for "AV GROUND LOOP ISO"
Or perhaps eBay item number:151617844291 or Amazon
 
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This is an interesting thread. I can “hear” engine electric noise. I bought new hearing aids that switch user programs with my cell phone. One program turns on a “telecoil” which is normally used with an old-style telephone handset. The telecoil receives induced EMF and converts it into audible sound. Works really good. Anyway, with the telecoil, I can hear engine and electrical generated noise and I can tell you the 912 is going-to-town. Same thing with my car. I drive a hybrid Prius and it makes all kinds of weird electrical noise.

Just thought I’d liven up everybody’s day. Maybe I should hire out?

I talk about using telecoil hearing aid in conjunction with ANR aviation headset here… http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=177997&highlight=HEARING+AID&page=5
 
This is an interesting thread. I can ?hear? engine electric noise. I bought new hearing aids that switch user programs with my cell phone. One program turns on a ?telecoil? which is normally used with an old-style telephone handset. The telecoil receives induced EMF and converts it into audible sound. Works really good. Anyway, with the telecoil, I can hear engine and electrical generated noise and I can tell you the 912 is going-to-town. Same thing with my car. I drive a hybrid Prius and it makes all kinds of weird electrical noise.

Just thought I?d liven up everybody?s day. Maybe I should hire out?

Ha! Funny... heck, I?m half deaf already with tinnitus and loss on my right ear, but with my Lightspeed ANRs on the noise is just annoying. Looks like I need to order up some more shielded wire and go to town on this thing...
 
Thanks Justin,

Yep, in the hangar, electrics powered up and headset on, there was lots of static type noise, snap-crackle-pop. I then pulled the 660 audio (Left channel) wire from the audio panel and all went blissfully quiet... but upon starting the engine, the noise was back. It wasn't quite as bad as before, but still annoying. Powering up for taxi/takeoff, the noise amped up a bit.

I don't have a true audio panel, but an AP-60 Audio Mixer linked below; it's a mono unit, so I just have the 660 audio Left channel to the AP-60, R is unused, Common is grounded at the AP-60. I didn't remove all the audio wiring, just pulled the L channel wire and capped it.
http://www.fdatasystems.com/ap-60-audio-mixer

If it's the power lead, does that mean I gotta run a shielded power line now? What a bummer this is considering the old 496 in an identical installation was dead quiet compared to the 660...

Thanks!

Which input on the AP-60 are you using?

If the common is still grounded at the AP-60, remove that line and see if anything changes, to try to narrow things down a bit.

What are the alert and message volumes set to on the Aera 660? If they are set low, and the alert input gain on the AP-60 is set high, that could exacerbate any audio interference issues. Ideally you want the 660 volume set fairly high, with the audio panel alert input volume set lower.

Thanks,

Justin
 
...If your backshell doesn't have a convenient location for this then put a ring terminal on the shield jumper wire the same size as the retaining screws on the Dsub connector and sandwich it between the connector and audio mixer using one of the thumbscrews as you attach the connector. If you disassemble the backshell you can also put the ring terminal on the top of the same mounting screw which is a better long-term solution since it stays together without confusing the next guy.

Here is what I am talking about.....

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?p=1435016#post1435016
 
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