What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

Phase 1 completed in 8 days

FulltronAviation

Custom RV painting by Fulltron
Advertiser
After two years and two weeks of working 7 days/week building my RV-14 I was a very rusty pilot. Two years of almost no flying and 20+ years with almost no tail-wheel time left me scratching my head about how to get current flying tailwheels and also do Phase 1. Instead of trying to go slow and taking it easy, I decided to go full bore, as fast as I could. The solution was to find high-time tailwheel instructors who could be "Qualified Pilots" under the Additional Pilot Program. And instead of trying to schedule an hour here and an hour there over many days, I flew several hours a day with them, over just a few days, getting tailwheel current, breaking in the new Thunderbolt engine while also doing Phase 1. Eight days of 5+ hours flight time accomplished all the goals. This pix was taken early on day eight as tach rolled over 40 hours. Day eight ended up with Phase 1 completed.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_3961.jpg
    IMG_3961.jpg
    363.9 KB · Views: 306
Last edited:
That's impressive! I took almost 5 months to get through Phase 1.
Have a safe Phase 2!
 
It is impressive, considering the number of times one may need to take the cowl off or other parts to inspect and make sure all is in order.
 
I don't think this is something I would brag about. The spirit and intent of Phase 1 is to do all the appropriate flight testing to validate the statement that you write in the log book after you are finished.

I demonstrated field length, rate of climb, cruise performance at 4 different cg locations within the envelop (including establishing my own aft cg limit which is slightly less aft than the factory recommendation, based on stick-force gradient). I also demonstrated all aerobatic maneuvers, as well as no undesirable control behaviors, again at each cg position.

I also measured the unusable fuel quantity in each tank.
 
Remember Phase I is NOT "40 hrs." Phase I is until all testing is complete in compliance with §91.319(b).

There is a minimum of 40 hrs. (25 hrs. for certified engine/propeller combination) to complete these tasks.
 
Wow... I thought we were hitting it hard getting 10hrs in on the first week. But as others have said, we're also doing what would basically be a full condition inspection after 10hrs and after 25hrs (that's the plan anyway) which is taking a few days even with no Squawks (and we have Squawks) to resolve. Nothing major, but it's a lot of time just to remove all the access panels for full visual inspection. AND... we have found things. Little things, but things that make me glad we're taking the time.
 
It sounds like a lot of negative assumptions are being made about how the OP conducted his phase 1. Whether you fly 40 hours over 5 months or 8 days still leaves that same amount of flight time to perform tests. 40 flight hours in 8 days is definitely a lot but still leaves plenty of time for post flight and debriefs. If instead you give the OP the benefit of the doubt and say he spent half the day with his airplane each day for 8 days that's 96 "working" hours. IMO that's plenty of time for inspections and changing ballast in addition to flight time; especially when you consider it sounds like he hired an experienced assistant, which is now legal, so you have 4 hands and eyeballs.

To Mel's point the OP showed the screenshot rolling over 40 "early on day 8" and that by the end of the day phase 1 was completed. To me that sounds like he didn't just sign it off at 40 hours, but was still testing through the end of day 8.

Anyway, I don't know the OP from Adam, and it's certainly possible he just bored holes in the sky for 40 hours and pencil whipped it. I just don't like how this forum, or the population in general, is so quick to assume the worst. I believe it is certainly possible to complete a thorough phase 1 in 8 days; if you have the organization, planning, free time and stamina to fully commit for those 8 days; and that's what I'm going to give the OP the benefit of the doubt that he did.

to OP: Congratulations and enjoy your wonderful flying machine!!!
 
I didn't mean to imply that the OP did not complete testing.

I'm simply concerned that too many people concentrate on the 40 hrs. more than the actual flight testing.
 
I just don't like how this forum, or the population in general, is so quick to assume the worst. I believe it is certainly possible to complete a thorough phase 1 in 8 days; if you have the organization, planning, free time and stamina to fully commit for those 8 days; and that's what I'm going to give the OP the benefit of the doubt that he did.

While I agree with you that making assumptions is not appropriate, I also understand why they were made.

A lot of us that have been in this business for a while (building experimental category aircraft) know what is involved in properly doing a Phase 1 flight testing program, along with all of the little issues that typically pop up that should be being dealt with before resuming testing.
Even in my work environment where we all do this for a career, properly completing a 40 hr test program of a newly built airplane in 8 days would be a challenge.

So the assumptions were likely made on the basis of the knowledge that in the majority of instances, Phase 1 flight time is accumulated by just boring holes in the sky, and learning to fly the airplane (a very beneficial part of Phase 1 but certainly not the primary purpose).

It will be great to hear from Dan that that wasn't the case in this instance.
 
This is perhaps not a whole lot different than those one-week IFR certs. One may get it done within a compact time, but quality won't be the same.
 
This is perhaps not a whole lot different than those one-week IFR certs. One may get it done within a compact time, but quality won't be the same.

How so? I took a one week bootcamp for IFR, it was a thousand times better than chasing various 25yo CFIs around the airport for 6-8 months while forgetting everything from the last lesson.

I learned more that week than I could imagine and nailed the check ride first try [because everything was fresh]. The examiner was not affiliated with the school. Highly recommended!

Show up with the written passed, 6 days of mornings in the Redbird Sim and afternoons in a G1000 equipped DA-40, 1 day for oral prep, 8th day the check ride ... $5500 and done!
 
Last edited:
This is perhaps not a whole lot different than those one-week IFR certs. One may get it done within a compact time, but quality won't be the same.

this is exactly the type of assumption that I'm talking about. why do you assume doing something in a condensed period = lower quality. There is a lot of benefit in the continuity of training, i.e. not losing skill from not using skill. (to tie to the OP i can see some of the same benefits in a flight test program)

I received some of this type of negative reaction when I got my private certificate in a little more than 3 weeks (it would have likely been faster calendar wise if weather/examiner scheduling hand't been an issue), I had to count the flight to the examiner to reach the required 40 hours. I had to pass, as do the students of the 1-week IFR, the same oral and practical standards as everyone else. I passed the flight test on the first attempt, in somewhat challenging winds, and the examiner was very complimentary of my flying skill.

Like all certificates passing the exam is just a "license to learn", and I'm not saying my flying skills were any better than any newly minted pilot; but I'm certain they weren't any worse solely because I did it in a short calendar period.

Whether it's a new certificate or a flight testing a new home-built; as long as the work was done correctly what does it matter how long it took on a calendar?
 
this is exactly the type of assumption that I'm talking about. why do you assume doing something in a condensed period = lower quality. There is a lot of benefit in the continuity of training, i.e. not losing skill from not using skill. (to tie to the OP i can see some of the same benefits in a flight test program)

I received some of this type of negative reaction when I got my private certificate in a little more than 3 weeks (it would have likely been faster calendar wise if weather/examiner scheduling hand't been an issue), I had to count the flight to the examiner to reach the required 40 hours. I had to pass, as do the students of the 1-week IFR, the same oral and practical standards as everyone else. I passed the flight test on the first attempt, in somewhat challenging winds, and the examiner was very complimentary of my flying skill.

Like all certificates passing the exam is just a "license to learn", and I'm not saying my flying skills were any better than any newly minted pilot; but I'm certain they weren't any worse solely because I did it in a short calendar period.

Whether it's a new certificate or a flight testing a new home-built; as long as the work was done correctly what does it matter how long it took on a calendar?
Chris,
I am all for and in favor of continuous and uninterrupted learning/building and nearly everything else and view it as more effective. I did my IFR training based on at least three flights a week but it was all in the air and no simulator. Perhaps your learning ability far surpass mine but I always needed some time to take it all in and reflect on the mistakes.
I have flown with two other friend as safety pilot who got their IFR based on the week long training and much of it under a simulator. In the air, even under foggle, they are nowhere to fly an actual IFR safely. Maybe my experience has been a one-off but it is not something I could do.
I am glad you are viewing this as a “license to learn” which I also believe in.
 
I have flown with two other friend as safety pilot who got their IFR based on the week long training and much of it under a simulator. In the air, even under foggle, they are nowhere to fly an actual IFR safely.

I know at least 10 pilots who have been working on their IFR for 3+ years and have spent far more time and money than necessary [and still can't hand-fly an approach].

Maybe it's my military background but I prefer high intensity repetitive non-stop training until it's done.

Everybody is different but that doesn't mean that bootcamps are bad.
 
Last edited:
Maybe it's my military background but I prefer high intensity repetitive non-stop training until it's done.
d.

As a cfii I’ve seen pilots from all kind of training backgrounds, and I tend to agree with the above quote, except I very much disagree with the last word.
The training is never done. And, imho, those who took the ‘cram course’ route seem to forget somewhat faster than those whose training was spread out. It’s even more important for that group to keep ifr current for an extended time after getting the rating.
Now, back to the OP: I’m no expert, but I was under the impression that phase 1 time, even under the new-ish ‘additional pilot’ rules, was not meant to be used for pilot training, e.g. tailwheel currency. I hold a waiver (‘LODA’) to give RV-10 transition training, for hire, in my airplane. But it expressly forbids any sign offs for anything else (high performance, flight review, etc). I would think the intent of the additional pilot program was similar, even if it doesn’t expressly say so.
Just my two cents.
 
I agree with most of what you said, and maybe a high intensity class wouldn't work well for your learning style. However, to assume the training is "low quality" simply because it's all done in one week isn't fair to those of us who work better in that type of high intensity training environment.

I have flown with two other friend as safety pilot who got their IFR based on the week long training and much of it under a simulator. In the air, even under foggle, they are nowhere to fly an actual IFR safely.

I'd be interested if these friends have recently completed the course or simply let their instrument skills deteriorate, which I've heard happens quickly regardless of where/how you receive training. (I'm not IFR rated so have no experience here) I'm not saying there are no bad schools and/or examiners, but if they received their certificate at the end of the class they should have been meeting standards at that point...
 
I agree with most of what you said, and maybe a high intensity class wouldn't work well for your learning style. However, to assume the training is "low quality" simply because it's all done in one week isn't fair to those of us who work better in that type of high intensity training environment.



I'd be interested if these friends have recently completed the course or simply let their instrument skills deteriorate, which I've heard happens quickly regardless of where/how you receive training. (I'm not IFR rated so have no experience here) I'm not saying there are no bad schools and/or examiners, but if they received their certificate at the end of the class they should have been meeting standards at that point...

I think we are suffering from some pretty severe thread drift here.

To be clear, I didn't make any assumptions about what the OP did or didn't do. I took him at his word. He had several different CFIs come get familiar with an airplane that they had never flown, while giving him tailwheel instruction, and breaking in a new engine (which pretty much amounts to boring holes in the sky for 5 hrs). And in the midst of that, he says he conducted his Phase I flight testing.

Then, I commented on the testing that I did (not a complete outline of all tests, but to give the general idea).

When I did my Phase I testing, I wrote an outline of a test plan, and test cards for what to accomplish during each flight. The outline also included inspections of various parts of the plane at various intervals during the testing. I don't think it was unusually comprehensive or thorough - it was just all the things I think should to be tested/demonstrated, and enough performance data to write a POH. I was pretty efficient at proceeding through my test cards. A few things got repeated for data repeatability. It is hard to fly and take data sometimes. It took me 38 hrs of hobbs time to execute my test plan while also doing engine break-in. This did not include time to get tailwheel proficient, or to have several other pilots get familiar with flying the airplane.

I wonder how you demonstrate that an RV-14 is controllable and has no undesired flight characteristics throughout its speed range at the forward CG limit with two people in it?
 
Last edited:
I know at least 10 pilots who have been working on their IFR for 3+ years and have spent far more time and money than necessary [and still can't hand-fly an approach].

Maybe it's my military background but I prefer high intensity repetitive non-stop training until it's done.

Everybody is different but that doesn't mean that bootcamps are bad.

I had not meant to imply bootcamps are bad or ineffective. I like to get focus on projects and get them done as quick as practical. I looked into those course and felt it was not for me.

With that an apology to the the OP for the thread drift.
 
This post has proved absolutely fascinating....

Reading all the replies to this post has proved most enlightening... and entertaining. Here are a few more points to ponder before you finish your own RV and do the initial flights... ESPECIALLY IF IT IS A TAIL-DRAGGER!. My pilot skills were rusty after spending 7 days/week building my 14. I dreamed of doing transition training with Mike Seager, but that couldn't happen for me.

My 88 year old mom lives with me, and she has severe dementia. It was not possible for me to be gone for several days in order to travel and fly with Mike. I had to find another option. It seems like everybody in the Van's world talks about transition training, and I sought to find transition training that would work for me. I started the search on Vans website, but that proved less than helpful. Of the few "transition" pilots on Vans website, most were not tail-wheel trainers. And of the few that were, trying to fit their schedules with my requirements was basically worthless.

So I decided to try and find some real tail-wheel training that would perhaps get me into the air safely in my RV-14, even if that training was not in a tail-wheel RV. I started asking everybody I could think of if they knew where I could get tail-wheel current. I say current because I had some tail-wheel time, but it wasn't very recent. I originally got signed off in tail-draggers in a Stearman. I also have some time in T-6's, a BT-13 and YMF-5 and UPF-7 Wacos. But it's been quite a while.

Before I continue, I should mention that I had never flown in any RV, except an RV-12 I built, but that's not even in the same league as an RV-14. I had never actually seen an RV-14 in person until I had my 14 almost completed. And I never flew a 14 until my plane did it's maiden flight.

Eventually I found somebody who knew somebody who had an RV. He thought it was an RV-8, but wasn't sure, but he would probably know somebody who could help me. Then that person knew somebody who he thought "might" know somebody who could train me in a tailwheel RV. That lead me to Bill Gill, who lives in Lees Summit, MO. I met with Bill and he showed me the RV-7 that he had not only built, but had given over 2,000 hours of transition training in, thanks to a LODA from the FAA. Bill is also an A&P and has helped several people build their RV's, and also with their Phase 1 flights. Bill is the person who enlightened me to the Additional Pilot Program.

Ah... that moment of enlightenment completely changed my thinking about getting my RV-14 into the air.

If you don't know about the Additional Pilot Program you are completely missing the boat. Instead of trying to get some "transition" training before your first flight, you do that first flight (or in my case the entire Phase 1 flights) with someone who is not only extremely qualified in tailwheels, but specifically in tail-wheel RV's! AND a CFI too. AND an A&P... AND an RV builder too!

So flying my first flights with Bill Gill was MY solution, to not only getting current flying, but doing the Phase 1 flying also. Then I met Ron Reser, who was a retired 757 Captain and has been teaching people to fly in J-3 Cubs for over 40 years. Ron has almost as many type-ratings as I have fingers and toes (and I still have all my original fingers and toes), and has flown almost everything that fly's and has a tailwheel. He has a type rating in a DC-3, that's a multi-engine tailwheel... if you're not familiar with a DC-3. And... before I forget it, Ron also has a type rating in a B-17... yea... the four-engine tail-dragger! Ron is the most accomplished tailwheel CFI I have ever had the pleasure of meeting. And the best teacher I have ever trained with.

So instead of getting some transition training, and then doing my RV-14's first flight by myself, I chose to do the Phase 1 flying with the most accomplished pilots I could find for my RV tail-dragger. Both Bill and Ron are "Qualified Pilots" under the Additional Pilot program. And they both have experience doing Phase 1 flight testing.

I don't know how much total flight time Bill has, because I never asked. All I cared about was he had a couple thousand hours training in his RV-7. During the first flight of N58TV the "flight crew" had 10,000 hours of flight time (did I forget to mention that even though I was somewhat rusty, ok, really rusty, I have almost 7,500 hours of flight time), and maybe a lot more. Before each flight we had a plan of what we wanted to accomplish. Before and after each flight we checked the plane over. Bill was experienced with Phase 1, having done the Phase 1 not only in his own RV-7, but also with flying Phase 1 with other RV builders too. So I was not only flying with an experienced Phase 1 flight test pilot, I was also getting current tail-wheel training too, all at the same time.

Bill flew with me for two days, and then I flew the rest of Phase 1 with Ron. When Ron and I were sitting in N58TV, the flight-crew of N58TV had OVER 30,000 hours of flight time! Every flight started with a plan, and we flew until that plan was accomplished.

During the entire Phase 1 there was only one minor squawk, a small burr on the tail-wheel mechanism, which took about one hour to fix. The most meticulous aircraft mechanic I have ever met, and also the builder of eight planes (I think it is eight anyway) kept careful watch over the plane every day, making sure that everything was in perfect condition.

I think about all the RV builders looking for some transition training before doing the first flight in their tail-wheel RV. Then I think about how I did not only the first flight, but the entire Phase 1. My question to every RV builder is why would any RV tail-dragger builder choose to do their Phase 1 any other way than how I did it.

And the question that nobody has asked, is WHY does Van's not find people like Bill Gill & Ron Reser, who are "Qualified Pilots" under the Additional Pilot Program for Van's tail-wheel aircraft, and make the names and contact info available to to all Van's builders. Its totally beyond my comprehension why anybody would not take advantage of the FAA's Additional Pilot Program.

I know of pilots who two years after their first flight, have flown less than 20 hours. I decided to not only do 40+ hours in several days, but do it with the most qualified tail-wheel RV pilots I could find. I call Bill & Ron the RV Phase 1 guru's, and thank them for not only their time, but their extreme experience and teaching skills.

Dan Baker
RV-14 N58TV
 
Back
Top