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BRS retrofit on built RV10?

Skepilot

Member
Has anyone retrofitted an already built RV10 with the BRS chute? BRS says it's possible, but I'm wondering how much labor is involved, on top of the $26k purchase price. Seems like it would involve a good bit of bodywork, paint, etc.
 
I'm in the process of installing one in an under-construction RV-10. Happy to discuss what's involved. I'm sure it's a bit easier to do it while the plane is still half built, but the kit was clearly designed to be installed as a retrofit to an existing plane.
 
$26K w/o labor, wow. I could put you and 9 of your friends in brand new parachutes and teach you how to use them for that. Even more with the volume discount:D Heck, we could even have our own "first jump course" for that much money:cool: I'm all for parachutes - be them on your back or on the airframe - but that sure is an expensive hit given the alternative. An acquaintance lost his door on T.O. in an RV-10 so clearly there's a big enough hole to get out of if you need to..;) The airframe is toast and uncontrollable once you pull that red handle anyway.
 
BRS Parachute or not is the new "to prime or not to prime" debate.

Maybe the new "2 bladed prop or 3 bladed prop debate."

If you decide to add one, you will get a lot more negative reactions than positive reactions. I've learned that firsthand.

But, if you want to add a parachute, you have your reasons. For me, it is inhospitable terrain almost everywhere I will be flying and a family that feels much more comfortable knowing that we are carrying a silk elevator in a homebuilt plane that will be likely be in Class A airspace in order to avoid said terrain by a wide margin. And with the need for only a single back seat most of the time, my baggage load can simply ride a few feet forward of the usual location.

If you want to discuss offline where the Parachute Flame Squad cannot interfere, happy to chat on the phone or email.
 
Everyone

Everyone has their own building parameters, that's for sure.

What I see most of the time with regards to the parachute, is that people are not realistic about it's use. You obviously have a valid reason in flying over inhospitable terrain...no question there...
 
You obviously have a valid reason in flying over inhospitable terrain...no question there...

Yup - ever look at a topographical map of Colorado? Few places to put it down anywhere west of the Front Range. I once heard former governor Hickenlooper say that if you could spread a piece of cloth across the entire state of Colorado, up and down every mountain and valley, the land area of the state is actually significantly larger than Texas.

Add in a little brother who lives in a remote part of Alaska and parents who live in Washington State near the mountains, and you will understand my concerns about safe landing areas.
 
Everyone has their own building parameters, that's for sure.

What I see most of the time with regards to the parachute, is that people are not realistic about it's use. You obviously have a valid reason in flying over inhospitable terrain...no question there...

And if having a BRS means a spouse buys off on the airplane idea. That's a very significant parameter.
 
I installed the parachute case and the rocket tunnel for the BRS in my RV-10 yesterday. As I note in my EAA blog, the instructions are not on par with what we RV-10 builders are used to from Van's. This was a lot more like what I've seen Dave P having to do for his RV-3. The parts are all there (except for some truly terrible screws that I've had to replace with a new set from Spruce), but how they all go together is somewhat left to the imagination.

If anyone else decides to add a BRS down the road, please feel free to reach out to me. Happy to pass on what I've learned so far, for better or worse.
 

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I'm in the process of installing one in an under-construction RV-10. Happy to discuss what's involved. I'm sure it's a bit easier to do it while the plane is still half built, but the kit was clearly designed to be installed as a retrofit to an existing plane.

Thanks for your reply. (Not interested in debating the rest of you about the merits of an airframe parachute.) It is too bad they can’t figure out a way to put the chute aft of the baggage area a-la Cirrus. But even with the chute back there, the RV-10 still has a more baggage space than the Sling TSi I was considering.

Anyway, I would like to discuss what’s involved in the installation, especially with regards to a retrofit. The rocket and chute itself seem fairly straight forward, but I’m curious about the cables.

It looks like the forward attach point is on the engine mount, correct? Would that require removing the engine and possibly the mount for a retrofit? The small image on their website doesn’t provide sufficient detail.

And what are the cables attached to at the rear to give it sufficient structural strength? And how are the cable conduits attached to the fuselage?

Thanks.
 
@AlpineYoda are you still monitoring this thread? I've got some questions on the chute.

1.) What is the frequency and cost of repack? On the Cirrus it's every 10 years. I would assume it's the same since they're both BRS brand? Is the cost less since it's experimental?

2.) On the Cirrus there are also "line cutters" which need to be replaced every 5 years. Is that the same on the RV-10?

3.) Are there other brand chutes that can be used on the RV-10? The Sling TSi uses Magnum Ballistic Parachute, and it's only a $11k option. The repack is every 6 years, but only costs $3500. (Yes, the Sling MGW is about 600# lighter than the RV-10, but Magnum makes chutes for planes up to 3,960# gross weight.)

4.) I hear the the BRS chute weighs 80 pounds. I understand the RV-10 baggage compartment is normally limited to 100 pounds. Does that leave you only 20 pounds of baggage capacity, or does it not matter as long as you're within CG limits?

Thanks
 
@AlpineYoda are you still monitoring this thread? I've got some questions on the chute.

4.) I hear the the BRS chute weighs 80 pounds. I understand the RV-10 baggage compartment is normally limited to 100 pounds. Does that leave you only 20 pounds of baggage capacity, or does it not matter as long as you're within CG limits?

Thanks

10 years ago the recommended baggage area limit was 150 lbs. As far as I know there was no structural concern - I think Vans was just concerned with careless pilots going too far aft with the cg.
 
3.) Are there other brand chutes that can be used on the RV-10? The Sling TSi uses Magnum Ballistic Parachute, and it's only a $11k option. The repack is every 6 years, but only costs $3500. (Yes, the Sling MGW is about 600# lighter than the RV-10, but Magnum makes chutes for planes up to 3,960# gross weight.)

In addition to Magnum, another option is Galaxy Recovery Systems. They are the exclusive provider of ballistic chutes to Pipistrel, including their new Panthera, which has a MGW similar to the RV-10.

Would love to find out if anyone has put a Magnum or Galaxy chute on their RV-10. I did see a post from 2008 of a guy putting a Magnum on his RV-10. I sent him a PM, but I'm not sure he's still active here on VAF.
 
10 years ago the recommended baggage area limit was 150 lbs. As far as I know there was no structural concern - I think Vans was just concerned with careless pilots going too far aft with the cg.

The construction manual still lists the baggage area limit as 150 lbs. Obviously one has to watch the cg, and that could certainly be an issue with both bags and a chute in back.
 
The construction manual still lists the baggage area limit as 150 lbs. Obviously one has to watch the cg, and that could certainly be an issue with both bags and a chute in back.

Never noticed the 150lb listing...., but it's sure is there. Where did 100 lb limit come from that many use? That's what I have placarded, but not sure where this came from VS the 150 lb. limit.
 
Never noticed the 150lb listing...., but it's sure is there. Where did 100 lb limit come from that many use? That's what I have placarded, but not sure where this came from VS the 150 lb. limit.

If you go to <vansaircraft.com>, airplanes, RV-10, it lists under ‘specifications’ ‘baggage-100lbs’.
 
@AlpineYoda are you still monitoring this thread? I've got some questions on the chute.

1.) What is the frequency and cost of repack? On the Cirrus it's every 10 years. I would assume it's the same since they're both BRS brand? Is the cost less since it's experimental?

2.) On the Cirrus there are also "line cutters" which need to be replaced every 5 years. Is that the same on the RV-10?

3.) Are there other brand chutes that can be used on the RV-10? The Sling TSi uses Magnum Ballistic Parachute, and it's only a $11k option. The repack is every 6 years, but only costs $3500. (Yes, the Sling MGW is about 600# lighter than the RV-10, but Magnum makes chutes for planes up to 3,960# gross weight.)

4.) I hear the the BRS chute weighs 80 pounds. I understand the RV-10 baggage compartment is normally limited to 100 pounds. Does that leave you only 20 pounds of baggage capacity, or does it not matter as long as you're within CG limits?

Thanks

Haven't been on in a couple of days...

Yes, 10 year repack on the RV version, too. If you are building new, they will sell you the installation kit separately from the rocket and 'chute. You buy and install those parts close to first flight, so the 10 year clock starts ticking then. The straps and tunnels are evergreeen.

No line cutters, as far as I know.

Don't know anything about the Magnum

My understanding, and I could be very wrong, is that this doesn't impact baggage area load limits. Since it is attached to everything through dozens of rivets and screws, the risk of the load shifting and impacting CG is zero. And the structural impact of something moving is zero. So, the empty CG moves backwards, and you need to account for that when computing a flight-time CG with baggage, but the parachute itself doesn't change the baggage load.

I'm 193 pounds and I've been crawling inside my baggage area to install stuff as I build. I haven't heard or seen the body of the plane give way or sag or anything as I add and remove my weight. Baggage limits aren't really a structural thing - the plane is no stronger or weaker in the baggage area than it is in the rear seats. The problem is CG and potential shifts in CG if the load shifts in position. (For the best example of this, YouTube the 747 crash out of Bahgram where the heavy load rolled backward on climb out.) So, load it up, as long as CG remains within limits.
 
Yes, 10 year repack on the RV version, too. If you are building new, they will sell you the installation kit separately from the rocket and 'chute. You buy and install those parts close to first flight, so the 10 year clock starts ticking then.

I understand the whole thing is about $26 total, right? How much is the installation kit and how much is the rocket & chute? And how much does the repack cost? (The BRS site doesn't break it all down.)

Thanks!
 
I understand the whole thing is about $26 total, right? How much is the installation kit and how much is the rocket & chute? And how much does the repack cost? (The BRS site doesn't break it all down.)

Thanks!

The tunnel and strap install kit was about $8k. The balance is the rocket and parachute. Don't know what the repack will be. Haven't asked - not sure I want to know yet. I figure it will be one of those things where I just set aside $100 a month (Or whatever it works out to be) into a separate account so I don't have a heart attack when it hits me.
 
More Detailed Write Up on BRS on RV9A

https://www.kitplanes.com/custom-brs-installation-in-an-rv-9a/

This is the Kitplanes report on the BRS installation in the RV9A. From what I read, I surmise installation is similar to the RV10, the chute is in the baggage compartment, and the supporting parachute slings are attached to the airframe structural supports. There are a lot more pictures in the weblink so you know what are involved.
 
I'm 193 pounds and I've been crawling inside my baggage area to install stuff as I build. I haven't heard or seen the body of the plane give way or sag or anything as I add and remove my weight. .

Keep in mind that the airplane is rated for 3.8 g, so what your crawling around proves is that 50 lb is okay (50 x 3.8=190).

Before 2012 or so, Vans’ recommended baggage area limit was 150 lbs, compared to today’s 100 lbs. I don’t think there were any structural issues; rather, Vans was concerned about it being too easy to exceed aft cg limits.
 
Keep in mind that the airplane is rated for 3.8 g, so what your crawling around proves is that 50 lb is okay (50 x 3.8=190).

Before 2012 or so, Vans’ recommended baggage area limit was 150 lbs, compared to today’s 100 lbs. I don’t think there were any structural issues; rather, Vans was concerned about it being too easy to exceed aft cg limits.

And my weight isn't actually completely inside that baggage area. I wouldn't fit. A foot is on the floor, and I'm half in and half out. Or laying from the back seats through. I would need to be in the fetal position to get my whole weight in the baggage area, and that's not a position I often find myself in while working on the plane.
 
From the Kitplanes magazine article, there is a lot of reinforcement of the BRS container so that it just doesn't sit on the baggage compartment itself. The BRS sits inside its own housing that is supported by the aft frames instead of on top of the floor. I think the weight of the BRS is counted against the gross weight of the airplane and since it doesn't affect the loading of the baggage floor.
 
Having installed one, I can tell you that much of the weight/stress is not on the floor.
Step 1 - cut a big hole in the side of the plane to allow for parachute egress
Step 2 - install a new longeron along the side that replaces part of the existing longeron
Step 3 - rivet a flange that runs around the outside of the parachute container to the side skin of the plane and install nutplates in the new longeron to which part of the container will be attached.
Step 4 - secure the container to the floor with about a dozen pull rivets

The floor is the last consideration. Fully loaded, I'm sure the weight will be on the floor, but per the steps above, 80% of the attachment points to the plane are on the skin and longeron.
 
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