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Moving a plane into a Mode C Veil, cheapest solution for Transponder and ADS-B

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I'm New Here
I'm buying my first plane and I have found a plane I like, but it is located in an area where it has never needed a transponder. Full disclosure it is experimental, but not an RV. I am just posting here because 90% of the valuable information Google finds me on experimentals (especially avionics) is from this forum.

My question is, if I do the install, what is the cheapest solution for a transponder and ADS-B on a plane that never had either?
 
Congrats on your purchase! Pics?

Be cautious of going "cheap".

There's a lot of spin ups trying to take advantage of the ADS-B deadline creating a lot of competition. A lot of these companies will go out of business or stop selling their ADS-B solution because all the competition will make it impossible for some to profit.

It's already happened to a few, search for "NAVWORX".

You don't want to find yourself buying another transponder, buying two is certainly not the cheapest solution.
 
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I agree with bkervaski. Cheap is not always economical. Do your research.

I went with Trig. I've had Trig in 2 airplanes over quite a few years and very happy with their system.

Complete ADS-B out including TT22 (Mode S transponder), TN72 (ADS-B compliant GPS), and TA70 (GPS antenna). All for about $2400.
 
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Congrats on your purchase! Pics?

Be cautious of going "cheap".

It's already happened to a few, search for "NAVWORX".

You don't want to find yourself buying another transponder, buying two is certainly not the cheapest solution.

Generally, I am but I am looking at a sub $15k plane, and I don't want to put $5k in avionics in it just to be able to fly.

Not having to do this twice is exactly why I am asking, part of me wants to just install a $250 used transponder and encoder to last a year, and then add a UAT next year. But I want to know that there are not better options. You RV guys tend to find the best mix of budget and quality that I have seen, so I presumed that this has been discussed a bit. I did find some good information in searches but some references to the Trig T22 (which I had not heard about) in a thread about the echoUAT lead me to create my own thread. I want to make sure that I haven't overlooked an option because I don't know what to ask.
 
In the long run "Cheap" will wind up being very expensive. That being said, your best option will depend on what you currently have installed in your panel and what your eventual "mission" will be with the airplane. IOW more information is needed before options can be discussed but it sounds like you will require a transponder at the bare minimum.

Something like this transponder with ADS-B OUT and built in GPS.

:cool:
 
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Economical vs. Cheap

Without knowing the rest of your panel setup it's challenging to present all of the numerous options, and thinking short term rather than what you want your panel to look like in 5 years could end up costing you more. FWIW, I'm going simple VFR (Mini-X) and chose to control a remote Sandia transponder (STX-165R) and using the uAvionix Echo UAT/GRT Safe-fly GPS package. My goal was a simple, uncluttered panel - but your goal may be totally different.
 
In my opinion the Trig TT22 ADS-B bundle is the best, least costly 1090ES option.

I've done a few 978-out installs and find traffic with those devices spotty at low altitude, well away from a ground station. I've seen too many mode-C targets fly right past me and nothing show on ADS-B, but an old Zaon picks it up.

1090ES does not have this issue since its an extended squitter mode-S transmission so dual-band ADSB receivers will pick up the traffic, without relying on a rebroadcast from a ground station. Assuming the traffic near you is also 1090ES. At least maybe they'd see you and you not see them, if properly equipped.

You can get ADS-B in with an inexpensive receiver, such as a Stratux, which also gets you a perfectly usable backup AHRS to display attitude on an iPad.

If you can accept the drawbacks of UAT and are ok with spotty traffic due to drawbacks of the system design, then you go with a cheap used transponder now and add a uAvionix EchoUAT, and also get ADSB-IN traffic/wx and not have to get an external IN box.

The other option is a cheap transponder then add a GDL-82. I consider the GDL-82 simply as a compliance box.
 
Others have mentioned the Trig and I agree it is a good value.

I am planning on using the Appareo-Stratus as I feel it is the BEST for my RV-6. Everything in ONE box. Easier for me to retrofit into a flying airplane. I will either buy from Stein or RST sometime in the next few months.

I plan to abandon my Grey Code encoder and use the serial port from my Garmin G5 as my altitude source.
 
I understand that using 1090ES (vs UAT) takes the "anonymous" option off the table. That's a consideration for some of us.
 
Another option

I just did the Uavionics tailbeacon on my -9 from Adventure Pilot. Took me about 5 minutes to install. They are currently offering a $150.00 rebate on these units ($1500.00). Gives the anonymous option when squawking 1200.
 
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Does your news plane (congratulations, BTW) have an engine driven electrical system?
If not, you don't need to add anything, if you stay clear of the Bravo.
 
From your location looks like the mode C will be a requirement to fly the plane "home" unless you are on the outside of the surrounding mode C circle of ATL.

It would be about a toss up in cost if you elected to go Mode C for now and then add a ADSB unit with position GPS by 2020, if you went with say a Garmin 327 now and UAT add on later.

Being this close to 2020 and not presently having a Transponder, I would probably go ahead and elect for a ES transponder and position source and only have to install it one time. The cost will be a bit more for the ES equipment but you would not have all the "add ons" and hassle of multiple installations. Very little "used" ES equipment on the market but a ton of Mode C transponders that could be pared to a UAT to get you ADSB compliant. Especially experimental
 
You should know that you can call ATC and ask for an exception to the mode C requirement for any given flight. That is an option to get you home with the new bird.

Larry
 
On the subject of economical ("cheap" probably isn't a good picture to paint) Xpnder and ADS-B solutions, I bought a Garmin GTX327 (with 8710) on ebay and went with the uAvionix Echo. I also happened to go with the GRT SafeFly 2020 WAAS GPS but I'm sure the uAvionix stuff is just as good. My total came to about $2000 dollars and I really have no complaints. Being able to use Foreflight on my iPad and have the ADS-B targets with METARS and Radar is really handy too.

TL/DR, Garmin GTX327 + uAvionics Echo gets my vote.
 
Here are some estimates:
1. Buy a good used 327 mode C transponder. $400. Antenna $100. UAvionics UAT with gps for $1500 (or substitute GRT gps, same price). Total $2K.
2. Buy a Trig TT22 mode SES. $2K. Antenna $100. GRT position source $500. Total $2.6K
Either case budget another $200 for initial and subsequent (biennial) transponder checks. In option #1 you will also need an altitude encoder.
Option 1 gets use ADSB-in as well (not mandatory) but being able to display the information will involve more money.

It’s tough spending 15% of the hull value for this, but aviation isn’t cheap.
 
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Here are some estimates:
1. Buy a good used 327 mode C transponder. $400. Antenna $100. UAvionics UAT with gps for $1500 (or substitute GRT gps, same price). Total $2K.
2. Buy a Trig TT22 mode SES. $2K. Antenna $100. GRT position source $500. Total $2.6K
Either case budget another $200 for initial and subsequent (biennial) transponder checks. In either case you will need an altitude encoder.
Option 1 gets use ADSB-in as well (not mandatory) but being able to display the information will involve more money.
It?s tough spending 15% of the hull value for this, but aviation isn?t cheap.
The Trig control head has the altitude encoder built in.
 
Thanks to everyone for the information.

Does anyone have experience with the SkygaurdTWX UAT units?

You should know that you can call ATC and ask for an exception to the mode C requirement for any given flight. That is an option to get you home with the new bird.

Larry

This is my plan to get the plane home to for the install.
 
Welcome and congrats on the purchase.

I have to agree with many others here, don't go cheap. Just because the plane was inexpensive doesn't mean everything else will be. This is not a poor man's hobby. :) It certainly doesn't have to be expensive but if you try to go cheap it will bite you in the "wallet" later.:eek:

I'd consider the Garmin GDL-82 at $1795 with a $500 FAA rebate and a used Garmin GTX-327 for around $450. No external encoder needed and less wiring to do. You can get a TED transponder antenna from Spruce for about $35. You'd be all-in at around $1800 and have all Garmin equipment. Can't go wrong with that.

I have the GDL-82 with a 327 and it works absolutely perfect. :D

I know Skyguard makes a portable unit and last I heard portable units are not 2020 compliant. Make sure what you are buying if you buy used.
 
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Welcome and congrats on the purchase.

I'd consider the Garmin GDL-82 at $1795 with a $500 FAA rebate and a used Garmin GTX-327 for around $450. No external encoder needed and less wiring to do. You can get a TED transponder antenna from Spruce for about $35. You'd be all-in at around $1800 and have all Garmin equipment. Can't go wrong with that.

I have the GDL-82 with a 327 and it works absolutely perfect. :D

How do you get altitude?, you need a source somehow like EFIS or an encoder.
 
Congrats on your purchase! Pics?

Be cautious of going "cheap".

There's a lot of spin ups trying to take advantage of the ADS-B deadline creating a lot of competition. A lot of these companies will go out of business or stop selling their ADS-B solution because all the competition will make it impossible for some to profit.

It's already happened to a few, search for "NAVWORX".

You don't want to find yourself buying another transponder, buying two is certainly not the cheapest solution.


LOL. "NAVWORX". Thats what I have and it works. Cheap beyond belief. BUT I'm feeding it with my 480s GPS, have no factory support and its def not a solution for everyone. At this point if I was VFR only, Id find the cheapest 978 OUT solution that keeps the FAA happy and let ATC tell me where the boggies are - just like we've been doing all these years. And wait for a few years for the ADSB dust to settle (ie company failures).

My gut feeling is that they'll make us ditch 978 and autonomous mode eventually. Right now its a carrot to keep people from uprising.....
 
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