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At last! Revisions to LSA

steve wyman

Well Known Member
The Feds anounced today their revisions to the LSA rule. The biggest change, from my standpoint, is the modification to the 10,000' MSL rule. It is now 10,000' MSL OR 2,000' AGL, whichever is greater. The earlier restriction, here in Colorado, was flat out dangerous. I've been writing to them about it, since the original rule went into effect- surprisingly, someone, there listened. Steve
 
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200 AGL!?!

The Feds anounced today their revisions to the LSA rule. The biggest change, from my standpoint, is the modification to the 10,000' MSL rule. It is now 10,000' MSL OR 2,000' AGL, whichever is greater. The earlier restriction, here in Colorado, was flat out dangerous. I've been writing to them about it, since the original rule went into effect- surprisingly, someone, there listened. Steve

Did you mean 2000 AGL (I hope!)

Hans
 
Yes, Steve. This is a huge improvement. This very significant change has been in the works for over a year. It's amazing how long it takes to make changes to the FAA rules.
 
So now LSAs can legally go up to 22,320' in the US! I wonder if we'll see a brave Alaskan pilot go for the "LSA record"?

--Bill
 
LSA Changes

I am glad to see this - and expected it - I could not have flown out of the Upper Arkansas Valley unless I stayed low down in Arkansas River canyon, not a good idea.

Also I land at Leadville often (pattern altitude 10,700) so this finally makes sense.

JohnF
 
Leadville

John,

How does Leadville work with the Rotax? Okay. I'd like to do the Idaho thing, curious how the 12 would do?
 
Does this rule apply to LSA's if flown by a person with a private pilot certificate and a current medical?

Tom
 
The +2,000 AGL revision is helpful, but it's a little unclear how it's to be used. If you need to fly over a 11,000 MSL ridge, when can you leave 10,000 MSL (I'm assuming you're less than 3,500 AGL) for higher? Only once you reach the peak? Within 1 mile? 5 miles? Personally, I'm not going to sweat it, but I hate for the rules to be unclear.

The larger item for me is dropping the requirement to carry one's logbook.

TODR
 
OK - let's see

if I have it right. I am glad to hear of this change and don't want to get into a 'how high is up' debate - only trying to understand the logic here.

It's now 10.000 over level land and 2,000 over the jagged mountain tops in an RV-12 if the pilot is Sport Pilot. But that same pilot can fly that same RV-12 to 18,000 (ok, maybe the aircraft can't make it that high) if he is a Private Pilot. So the limitations are on the pilot. OK.

Does the FAA assume that a Sport Pilot is physically challenged solely because he has a Sport Pilot Certificate? But the FAA allows that same pilot fly a glider up to 18,000 or above with a glider PPC? I know that some of the gliders go at least as fast as an RV-12 at cruise when going cross country. What is magical about the 10,000' limit? Speed limit maybe - please explain.

Seems to me that Sport Pilot rated pilots should be allowed up to 18,000 just like the guy with a PPC who has a C-152. Yeah, I know that a C-152 probably won't make it up that high but you know what the point is.:)
 
if I have it right. I am glad to hear of this change and don't want to get into a 'how high is up' debate - only trying to understand the logic here.

It's now 10.000 over level land and 2,000 over the jagged mountain tops in an RV-12 if the pilot is Sport Pilot. But that same pilot can fly that same RV-12 to 18,000 (ok, maybe the aircraft can't make it that high) if he is a Private Pilot. So the limitations are on the pilot. OK.

Does the FAA assume that a Sport Pilot is physically challenged solely because he has a Sport Pilot Certificate? But the FAA allows that same pilot fly a glider up to 18,000 or above with a glider PPC? I know that some of the gliders go at least as fast as an RV-12 at cruise when going cross country. What is magical about the 10,000' limit? Speed limit maybe - please explain.

Seems to me that Sport Pilot rated pilots should be allowed up to 18,000 just like the guy with a PPC who has a C-152. Yeah, I know that a C-152 probably won't make it up that high but you know what the point is.:)

I'm cynical, of course, and assume these rules are written by an insurance company rather than FAA themselves or people who actually fly airplanes. They don't make much sense otherwise.

Same about the 10,000' MSL limit, the current change was probably compressed into its mildly useless form by some lobby somewhere. So I never expect rules like this make sense and don't try to figure the reasoning out.

FAA does explain this a little bit in the new rule, but it's pretty clear someone's on a leash and someone else is holding the leash when you read it.

I live in northern NM and run into this all the time. Going north, there are spots where 2000 AGL isn't nearly enough to maintain safe gliding distance unless you divert significantly on your route to keep a road or something under you.

When given the choice of being safe and being legal, I always choose safe. So I just bust this reg as needed to maintain the safety of the flight. Seems to me maintaining adequate terrain clearance, aircraft performance limitations, etc. is a good enough reason to bend/bust as necessary.

But you're right - FAA might not necessarily see it that way.

This is better than what we had before, but also still clearly inadequate.

LS
 
2000 AGL

I too am confused.

I live in the mountains. The peaks east of me are between 11,000 and 12,000 MSL, and there are some high plateaus around 9,000. Currently I fly using private pilot rules, so flying east I climb to 11,500 and follow canyons so as to avoid the peaks, and I'm fine.

But if I were to fly with the new light sport rules of 10,000 MSL or 2,000 AGL, whichever is higher, it seems like I couldn't do this. Flying up the canyons, I'd never be above 2,000 AGL, so I guess I'd have to stay under 10,000 MSL. Then I suppose when I came to the 9,000 ridge, I'd have to watch my altitude pretty carefully, exactly following the terrain, so that I never exceeded 2,000 AGL. Sometimes the slope of the terrain might exceed the climb (or descent) capabilites of a light sport aircraft, so I guess I might have to break the rules and start my a little early and exceed 2,000 AGL before I got to the ridge.

Does anyone know how these rules are really supposed to work? If you follow them exactly (as lawyers are liable to do), they seem to be quite unusable. This is a question that concerns me regarding a decision to build an RV-12 or not (because then I'd want to let my medical lapse and need to follow these strange rules).
 
It's now 10.000 over level land and 2,000 over the jagged mountain tops in an RV-12 if the pilot is Sport Pilot. But that same pilot can fly that same RV-12 to 18,000 (ok, maybe the aircraft can't make it that high) if he is a Private Pilot. So the limitations are on the pilot. OK.

Does the FAA assume that a Sport Pilot is physically challenged solely because he has a Sport Pilot Certificate? But the FAA allows that same pilot fly a glider up to 18,000 or above with a glider PPC? I know that some of the gliders go at least as fast as an RV-12 at cruise when going cross country. What is magical about the 10,000' limit? Speed limit maybe - please explain.
Yeah, that's a little odd. With my glider rating, I can fly as high as ATC will let me, but as a SP, I'm limited to 10k MSL or 2k AGL, whichever is higher. The FAA's reasoning was that SPs don't get training on hypoxia, oxygen, etc. Ok, then why not allow SPs to fly above 10k with additional training, much like the the Class B/C/D issue? Dunno.

TODR
 
Van lists the -12's ceiling as 13,800'...

...at gross weight, so I'd be careful around 11,000 mountains until some solo experience is gained anyway, and find out early on just how hard/easy it is to reach 12,000 or so,

Best,
 
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