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Prop change

I am looking at an RV 6 that had a prop change from a Pacesetter 68/66-20 to a metal Sensenich 70CM6S9-0-76, both fixed pitch props. I believe the wt and balance was done with the pacesetter prop and can not find documentation of the prop change in the aircraft log book. What should be done to make the documents be in compliance with the FARs? Is there a big wt difference in the props? What would the process be to do a new wt and balance?

Thanks for any advise.
 
You need to find someone to loan or rent you a set of scales. Place them under all three wheels, with the plane level; Note the weights,measure the location of the wheels, do the calculation (lots of references around).

A harder question is whether or not the new prop is a 'major change' requiring you to re-enter phase 1 testing. If so you need to call the FISDO.
 
If you can establish the weights of both props, you can establish the station by measuring and just calculate the new cg. No real need to reweigh.
 
The thing with phase 1. I think the prop was probably put when he put on an exchange O-320 which was about 113 hours ago. So it has flown a while with it and it flys very nice. Just want to make sure paper work is in proper order. It was a fixed pitch to fixed pitch. I have heard that does not require a phase one?
 
phase 1

I believe a prop change requires Phase 1 for 5 hours. Check with a DAR, he should have you answers.

And , Yes the Sensenich is heavier. around 15-20lbs
 
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The thing with phase 1. I think the prop was probably put when he put on an exchange O-320 which was about 113 hours ago. So it has flown a while with it and it flys very nice. Just want to make sure paper work is in proper order. It was a fixed pitch to fixed pitch. I have heard that does not require a phase one?

I think that depends on how your operating limitations are written. Best to check with Mel.....
 
With the current operating limitations a prop change requires a new 5 hour minimum phase I unless the props are the same manufacturer, model and pitch.
Your op lims may differ. YOUR op lims are the controlling factor.
 
What Mel said. It depends on the Operating Limitations. If they say something like, "After incorporating a major change as described in 21.93, the aircraft owner is required to reestablish compliance with 91.319(b) and notify the geographically responsible FSDO of the location of the proposed test area. The aircraft owner must obtain concurrence from the FSDO as to the suitability of the proposed test area. If the major change includes installing a different make and model of engine or propeller, the aircraft owner must fill out a revised Form 8130-6 to update the aircraft's file in the FAA Aircraft Registry..." After the Phase 1 is completed, a log book entry must be made.

With all of this said, we have asked our local FSDO on several occasions for approval to do just this. Their response to our phone request was, "Have fun."

A deviation from the rules 113 hours ago, if it in fact was a deviation, does not affect what you have to do, except you might want to update both the engine and prop information on the 8130-6 and in the aircraft logbooks.

In short, read your operating limitations and go from there.
 
I did a little more digging and found the operating limitations which were rewritten along with a new Special Airworthiness. This one shows the Sensenich prop, however I have not seen in the log book where the phase one was done or the prop was put on yet. Does it also have to be in the log book?
 
With all of this said, we have asked our local FSDO on several occasions for approval to do just this. Their response to our phone request was, "Have fun."

I'm almost finished with a Rotec/carb swap and today called the FSDO to put the airplane back into Phase 1. He advised that 1. this is a minor change (part swap) and 2. they didn't know what carb was on there to begin with so it's immaterial to them what you are changing it to. He said if it was an engine change, that would be a different deal since they know what engine is in the airplane. He also advised to definitely test the airplane (which of course we are doing) but it was not required to go into formal Phase 1 testing.
 
The new prop should be in the log book, the W&B should be updated and the Phase 1 should be signed off before you can move outside the flight area or take passengers.
 
Britt,

Even if what Jesse wrote has not been done, it's a non issue for you to put it back in Phase 1 flight test for 5 hrs and then enjoy.

Anyway you'd want a few hours to get the feel of it before carrying passengers.

If you buy post some pics for us.

Glenn Wilkinson
 
Prop me up...

I am looking at an RV 6 that had a prop change from a Pacesetter 68/66-20 to a metal Sensenich 70CM6S9-0-76, both fixed pitch props. I believe the wt and balance was done with the pacesetter prop and can not find documentation of the prop change in the aircraft log book. What should be done to make the documents be in compliance with the FARs? Is there a big wt difference in the props? What would the process be to do a new wt and balance?

Thanks for any advise.

Britt,
Great posts and advice, and congrats. The FSDO has an appointment phone number and you can chat with an "agent" and discuss the Ops limits. Phase one as mentioned above is no big deal, I installed nine different props on my RV4 over 15 years and FP to FP according to my OL was not a "major change", I made a logbook entry and pressed on. Call me...

V/R
Smokey
 
I'm almost finished with a Rotec/carb swap and today called the FSDO to put the airplane back into Phase 1. He advised that 1. this is a minor change (part swap) and 2. they didn't know what carb was on there to begin with so it's immaterial to them what you are changing it to. He said if it was an engine change, that would be a different deal since they know what engine is in the airplane. He also advised to definitely test the airplane (which of course we are doing) but it was not required to go into formal Phase 1 testing.

Score! The downside to that assessment (unless you get in in writing) is that the engine that you have on the airplane doesn't list that carb on it's TC, so it's technically a different engine. Some OTHER FSDO or mechanic down the road could whine about it. Same idea goes if someone does a 25hr flyoff with a certified engine, then convert it to EI. It's not a certified engine anymore, so 5 more hours? 15 more hours? Seems loophole-ish.
 
We"re not happy till you're not happy....

Score! The downside to that assessment (unless you get in in writing) is that the engine that you have on the airplane doesn't list that carb on it's TC, so it's technically a different engine. Some OTHER FSDO or mechanic down the road could whine about it. Same idea goes if someone does a 25hr flyoff with a certified engine, then convert it to EI. It's not a certified engine anymore, so 5 more hours? 15 more hours? Seems loophole-ish.

Re:FAA inconsistencies.
Absolute power corrupts, absolutely...
Socrates
 
I was reported that SmokeyRay took a pitch that was a bit low and inside, and hit it out of the park! :p
 
These are my Operation Limitations:

MajorChangeAWC_zpsf93b131c.jpg


So in my case, if I change the propeller I have to do the 5hr test phase, enter it onto the logbook but I don't have to contact the FSDO at all? Or am I missing something?

:cool:
 
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If you have the most lenient op lims like that which were issued between 1999 and 2003 then you don't need to contact the FSDO for concordance on your phase 1 flight area. Just log the aircraft back into phase1, and fly off your 5 hours in a sparsely populated area. Sticking to a 50nm radius of your home airport is probably still a good idea.
 
These are my Operation Limitations:
MajorChangeAWC_zpsf93b131c.jpg

So in my case, if I change the propeller I have to do the 5hr test phase, enter it onto the logbook but I don't have to contact the FSDO at all? Or am I missing something?
:cool:

You are correct. In all cases your operating limitations is the controlling document.
 
If you have the most lenient op lims like that which were issued between 1999 and 2003 then you don't need to contact the FSDO for concordance on your phase 1 flight area. Just log the aircraft back into phase1, and fly off your 5 hours in a sparsely populated area. Sticking to a 50nm radius of your home airport is probably still a good idea.

You are right it was issued in 2001. Staying close to the airport is my intention anyway.

You are correct. In all cases your operating limitations is the controlling document.

THANKS!

:cool:
 
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