Engine kit arrival

Well, the Rotax is uncrated, and sitting on a workbench in my basement. 'Tis a thing of beauty! But of course for $20K, it should be! Hard to believe, that 4years ago, the same type engine was sitting there, about to go on my RANS and it was only $11,700. And for those of you who still buy the Euro vs. Dollar theory, in that 4 year span, the Euro went from $1.25 to $1.48- a 17% increase. The engine, in that same time frame, has incurred a 71% increase!. Must be something about " charge what the traffic will bear". Oh well, enough venting- back to building. Steve

Engine/Prop

Steve,

I think you will also be very impressed with the new Sensenich prop...hollow composite. Not only is it attractive and effective, it is very, very quiet to the outside world. You should zip through this part with all your Rotax experience.

Just a hint about the cyinder cooling cowel. Paint it flat black and it will good on the engine when you are done, better than raw fiberglass anyway.

JMHO

Peterk said:

Steve,

I think you will also be very impressed with the new Sensenich prop...hollow composite. Not only is it attractive and effective, it is very, very quiet to the outside world. You should zip through this part with all your Rotax experience.

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Pete- I had the same prop on my RANS S-7. You are absolutly correct- it is a very quiet external prop / engine Combo. Steve

ROTAX engine proce sticker shock!!!!!

Not happy here (someone has to say it and it looks like it's going to be me) - the price of $26,452.00 is the factory listed price as of today if I read it correctly. That's a lot more than twice the price of the engine four years ago.

It would be interesting to hear from some of our European listeners with input on the current price of a comparable ROTAX in Europe.

Last time I looked at Van's ROTAX price (I think that it was maybe two weeks ago,), it listed for about $25,00.00 which astounded me at that time!!!. Plus $1,600.00 in less than one month!!!

I believe that Van's does the best that they can for us builders but maybe the ROTAX company has put at least one nail into the coffin of the RV-12 as it is currently configured (with a ROTAX engine).

Had I known that the ROTAX would ever cost this much, I would have started and RV-9A build instead. I can get a nice IO-320 or IO-360 for about the same money ----- or less. And, yeah, for some of us, it does come down to $$$$$.

This high price of the ROTAX (even though Van's refines the basic ROTAX configuration at the factory) really hurts.

I'll not be ready for an engine for a year or more and hope that by that time the price of a ROTAX doesn't cost more than a good IO-540!!! If it does, I'll try to sell my aircraft to someone who can afford to finish it (add the ROTAX from Van's). Needless to say, if that happens, the value of an RV-12 kit may be a lot less than the factory price.

Don't know about the rest of you but considering the past history of the prices of the various ROTAX engines, I couldn't conceive that the price would ever be above $20,000.00.

And $26,452.00 is very sad. Contiental & Lycoming, are you listening?

My 2 cents worth - I'm pretty sad/disappointed/angry, etc.

E. D. Eliot said:

Last time I looked at Van's ROTAX price (I think that it was maybe two weeks ago,), it listed for about $25,00.00 which astounded me at that time!!!. Plus $1,600.00 in less than one month!!!

Had I known that the ROTAX would ever cost this much, I would have started and RV-9A build instead. I can get a nice IO-320 or IO-360 for about the same money ----- or less. And, yeah, for some of us, it does come down to $$$$$.

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Not that I don't agree with you about the engine being expensive...but it should be noted that this price you are comparing to a Lycoming is for a complete engine installation kit.
It is basically everything on an RV-12 forward of the firewall except for the cowling. This includes the prop, spinner, exhaust, oil and coolant heat exchangers, cooling ducts, engine controls, hoses, etc., so to fairly compare it to the price of a Lycoming you need to add the cost of a firewall fwd kit, a propeller, and a spinner (somewhere between $7000-8000 I think)

Sticker shock!!!

Scott - you are right about the fw fwd being basically complete. Thanks for pointing that out. Hope we hear from someone in Europe referencing the price of a 912 (I know that there can't be an exact comparison) as it is today.

My main beef is that we are now way over $20,000 for the fwf and I am concerned that if the price can go up $1,600 in a couple of weeks, then what's next??? Hopefully, Van will be able to persuade the ROTAX people not to raise the price any more.

All of a sudden, I have to find a lot more money in order to finish off my airplane. I know that we are dealing with the price of money (that our foolish governors are borrowing) and an economy in a foreign country. Guess that I should have expected this. But, $26,000 PLUS?

E. D. Eliot said:

Scott - you are right about the fw fwd being basically complete. Thanks for pointing that out. Hope we hear from someone in Europe referencing the price of a 912 (I know that there can't be an exact comparison) as it is today.

My main beef is that we are now way over $20,000 for the fwf and I am concerned that if the price can go up $1,600 in a couple of weeks, then what's next??? Hopefully, Van will be able to persuade the ROTAX people not to raise the price any more.

All of a sudden, I have to find a lot more money in order to finish off my airplane. I know that we are dealing with the price of money (that our foolish governors are borrowing) and an economy in a foreign country. Guess that I should have expected this. But, $26,000 PLUS?

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In Van's defense they said it was going to be a $ 60,000 aircraft and it is about that, sure it would be great to get the firewall forward for a lot less, but it is about the price we were told to expect so I am not sure where the current concern comes from.

If it is more than you wish to pay then you do have the option to build EAB and buy a good used engine and the other parts you would need from Van's to complete the FWF installation, that might save you $ 10,000, and it might lower the value of the finished aircraft by more but then life is full of compromises.

Best regards,
Vern

I think it is important to remember (without getting political) that it is the value of the dollar -v- euro, not Rotax raising prices. Elections have consequences. My point is buy your engine kit now, it will only cost more in the future.


Enough said.

Rotax in Europe

I'm in the UK. I bought a new Rotax from the UK agent last December, and it's still in its box in the workshop. Cost me ?11375 at the time, which includes 17.5% tax that we have to pay in the UK. If we assume a current exchange rate of around 1.6:1, this comes to $18200.

I have ordered the firewall forward kit less the engine from Vans. They reduced the price by $18000 to account for exclusion of the engine.

My concern now is what Vans have done to a Rotax that I will have to do myself.

Cheers...Keith

Has anybody seen my engine?

Van's shipped my engine last week on ABF freight. The tracking info said it would be delivered today. When I checked this morning it said "delayed", and gave a number to call. I did, and they said it must have been put on the wrong trailer in Sacramento, and to call there. When I called ABF in Sacramento they said they never received it at all, and to call and make sure Van's actually shipped it.(they did) So if one of you has an engine show up at your door unexpectedly, would you please forward it to me. LOL

gblwy said:

My concern now is what Vans have done to a Rotax that I will have to do myself.

Cheers...Keith

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Nothing that I can think of that is not easily fixed. Check the orientation of the water pump outlet.

How do you know what oil coolers and radiators to get? There are several different ones.

When I started this thread, I had just recieved my engine/ firewall foreward kit. I just finished the inventory on the kit, and, boy, am I impressed! I haven't changed my mind on the cost of the Rotax or the Euro vs. Dollar rationale, but I've got to tell you the quality and completenes of this kit is really amazing. VANS has very little control over the cost of the engine, but the value of the rest of the firewall foreward kit is impressive. Now, if I can just get off my buns and get the canopy fiberglassed, I can get on with the fun part. Steve

gblwy said:

I'm in the UK. I bought a new Rotax from the UK agent last December, and it's still in its box in the workshop. Cost me ?11375 at the time, which includes 17.5% tax that we have to pay in the UK. If we assume a current exchange rate of around 1.6:1, this comes to $18200.

I have ordered the firewall forward kit less the engine from Vans. They reduced the price by $18000 to account for exclusion of the engine.

My concern now is what Vans have done to a Rotax that I will have to do myself.

Cheers...Keith

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Geico266 said:

Nothing that I can think of that is not easily fixed. Check the orientation of the water pump outlet.

How do you know what oil coolers and radiators to get? There are several different ones.

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The primary thing you will have to confirm is the positioning of the four coolant elbow fittings on the water pump housing. All four of them must point directly forward for the RV-12 motor mount to fit. There is at least two different configurations sold by Rotax (I don't know which is the standard if you don't specify when ordering).
The water pump outlet mentioned by Larry is easily repositioned so that wont be a problem.

Larry, he said he ordered a FWF kit minus the engine, from Van's so he will get all of the proper heat exchangers and other parts.

I promise to...well maybe I'll let you know?

Mark Henderson said:

Van's shipped my engine last week on ABF freight. The tracking info said it would be delivered today. When I checked this morning it said "delayed", and gave a number to call. I did, and they said it must have been put on the wrong trailer in Sacramento, and to call there. When I called ABF in Sacramento they said they never received it at all, and to call and make sure Van's actually shipped it.(they did) So if one of you has an engine show up at your door unexpectedly, would you please forward it to me. LOL

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Mark, If ABF tries to deliver your Rotax to my garage I promise to ...well I may give you a ride in my completed RV-12...good luck!

Jay
Albany, OR