What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

Phase 1 flight testing not allowed at airport

SeanM

Member
Airport manager is saying he doesn't think phase 1 flight testing is allowed at his airport. I'd like to know this for sure. I think I read people can be given transition corridors in some circumstances?

Who should I be talking to about this? Is this a question for my FSDO?


I'm still cranking on the fuse kit so I have time to figure something out. Exactly what--I don't know.

I can't help but be a bit bummed after waiting on the hanger list for almost 6 years. It felt like hangar plans were coming together until now lol. That and I've found that the airports in my immediate vicinity in Utah are not really GA friendly. Especially when it comes to hangars. :(
 
Airport manager is saying he doesn't think phase 1 flight testing is allowed at his airport. I'd like to know this for sure. I think I read people can be given transition corridors in some circumstances?
Who should I be talking to about this? Is this a question for my FSDO?
I'm still cranking on the fuse kit so I have time to figure something out. Exactly what--I don't know.
I can't help but be a bit bummed after waiting on the hanger list for almost 6 years. It felt like hangar plans were coming together until now lol. That and I've found that the airports in my immediate vicinity in Utah are not really GA friendly. Especially when it comes to hangars. :(

Yes, this would be a question for the FSDO. There are some airports where Phase I is not allowed. First would be any airport in Class B airspace. Second would be an airport where there is no reasonable route in or out without flying directly over congested area, i.e. housing developments, etc.
We have several such airports in the DFW Metroplex.
Another source would be a local DAR familiar with the airport.
 
Last edited:
Yeah, it's a question for the FSDO or DAR that will be issuing your ops limits.
 
My home airport used to be in that category and at the time I had to go to another nearby airport for the phase I. lucky for me this has changed now.
 
There are two issues. one, will the FSDO allow it and two, will the airport authority allow it. Some airports have unique restrictions. For example, mine does not allow T&G's. Not sure why. Presumably the FBO operator lobbied for it to help drive up Hobbs time. THey make the students taxi really slow, so I suspect it meaningfully drives up hours with very little extra gas consumption (wet rates).

I had to do phase 1 at a different airport (heavily congested area) - FAA restriction. I got it done with only three or four months of extra hanger rent. They offered me the option to have one takeoff from my airport if I assembled the plane there. In my case, I declined due the Bravo shelf only 1000' above our field. I wanted my first flight orbitting over a runway.

Larry
 
Last edited:
One time flight out

In our case we got permission for the first flight to be a departure from the build airport to relocate to an airport that the FSDO approved for Phase 1. Not ideal, but better than disassembly to relocate!
 
My predicament

In our case we got permission for the first flight to be a departure from the build airport to relocate to an airport that the FSDO approved for Phase 1. Not ideal, but better than disassembly to relocate!

This is my situation. I am curious what airport? Also if allowed, is it wise to do a ferry flight on the first flight, a la Boeing?

RV9 Top Gun: “I’ll be waiting for you up top. Come and get me”
 
Test area

I just spoke with the local Fsdo about my test area request. I found them quite accommodating. I selected a test area to be requested and listed my reasoning for that area. They looked at it and agreed. Worked pretty well. Now just have to get the inspection out of the way!
 
Very interesting the different paths people have been able to take.

Ok I will check in with the FSDO. The airport authority though--they are a bit of an immovable object when it comes to anything, but who knows
 
If you ask enough people, someone will say “no”.
Propose an area to the FSDO. Mark it on a sectional, (and try to include a couple other airports since it gets boring and maybe cheap gas!). Know the guidelines for a test area and work it out.
If they say “yes”, fly it. If they say no, they will need to tell you why. Go from there.
Always strive to make it easy for them by being prepared and having something for them to file in the records.
 
No RVs at your airport (keeping it secret?) that u can ask what the Phase 1 area was for them? And how they dealt with it?
 
If you ask enough people, someone will say “no”.
Propose an area to the FSDO. Mark it on a sectional, (and try to include a couple other airports since it gets boring and maybe cheap gas!). Know the guidelines for a test area and work it out.
If they say “yes”, fly it. If they say no, they will need to tell you why. Go from there.
Always strive to make it easy for them by being prepared and having something for them to file in the records.

I started my phase 1 area proposal kinda small .. maybe 80 nm south of my home field +/-. My DAR quickly said (in the docs pre-inspection review) ... "Seriously? If you want to fly in circles, fine by me, but a bigger area might be better". And I did: 200 nm south, 150 east, another 150 north, and back. I have to avoid larger populated areas around the SF Bay Area, but other than that, alot of CA is game. Been loving he range, and will do "edge flight" around the test area before phase 2 ... about 3.5 hours flight time. Nice to have an experienced and cooperative DAR!
 
How about getting the DAR or FSDO to approve your airport/test area and then not saying much about it at the airport. It's only 40 hours, I'd be surprised if anyone even noticed.

If they do ask, you can say here's my FAA approved papers...
 
This is my situation. I am curious what airport? Also if allowed, is it wise to do a ferry flight on the first flight, a la Boeing?

RV9 Top Gun: “I’ll be waiting for you up top. Come and get me”

Pretty sure it's OKB & L18...
 
Some airports have unique restrictions. For example, mine does not allow T&G's. Not sure why. Presumably the FBO operator lobbied for it to help drive up Hobbs time.

Interesting theory, but the reason for the restrictions might be to keep the local homeowners happy. I learned to fly at an airport that allowed T&Gs during the day on weekdays when many people were at work, but not in the evening Monday thru Friday or any time on weekends when many residents were at home enjoying their backyards.
 
Private or Fed funded airport?

If its a "private" airport the owner can make the rules and often is based on his/hers/your insurance policy. I'm based at a Privately owned, public use airport with 60 planes, and our "rules" are based on the owners opinion. Fortunately, they support homebuilding and don't impose any restrictions that differ from FAA guidelines. We did have a group of paramotor guys that where leasing a hangar and flying from our airport that were "thrown out" based on reports and complaints from local farmers for buzzing cows or something silly like that..so in that case, the owner made a rule I must assume. Federally funded airports may have less ability to impose unique rules or risk having their funding pulled is what I have been told. I will be curious to hear what the reasoning is or the resolution to your dilemma ! Being your in Utah, there is a Russian Spy flying your territory, so watch for the Red Star RV9.. Vlad is out there!
 
How about getting the DAR or FSDO to approve your airport/test area and then not saying much about it at the airport. It's only 40 hours, I'd be surprised if anyone even noticed.

If they do ask, you can say here's my FAA approved papers...

Agree. It would have never occurred to me to ask. My lease didn’t prohibit it and the rules said ask the FSDO so why would I talk to the airport manager?

The airport managers of all the airports I visited during Phase I didn’t have a choice either after all.

Oliver
 
Interesting theory, but the reason for the restrictions might be to keep the local homeowners happy. I learned to fly at an airport that allowed T&Gs during the day on weekdays when many people were at work, but not in the evening Monday thru Friday or any time on weekends when many residents were at home enjoying their backyards.

It's possible, but taxi backs are allowed and all of the students with the FBO flight school do that. I suppose it is possible that the instructors are also taking them to another airport to do T&G's, as I didn't do my training there.

other restrictions, like minimum altitude before x wind turn and preferred runway use are there to keep neighbors happy.

Larry
 
If you ask enough people, someone will say “no”.
Propose an area to the FSDO. Mark it on a sectional, (and try to include a couple other airports since it gets boring and maybe cheap gas!). Know the guidelines for a test area and work it out.
If they say “yes”, fly it. If they say no, they will need to tell you why. Go from there.
Always strive to make it easy for them by being prepared and having something for them to file in the records.

Completely agree. I suggest not talking to FSDO. Work with your DAR. They approve your limitations not the FSDO.
My airport is under a class B 1700 ft MSL (1200 agl) layer and the pattern on one side is right up against class B to surface. Airport is surrounded by houses in all directions for 5 miles. I proposed a corridor out from airport over least populated route and he approved it. I did first flight circling the airport at 1700 ft.
 
Last edited:
Federally funded airports may have less ability to impose unique rules or risk having their funding pulled is what I have been told.

There was a time when I was spending 20 hours a week in defense of my airport. Unfortunately, the FAA Airports Compliance Manual was required reading. See Chapter 14, notably 14.3:

https://www.faa.gov/airports/resources/publications/orders/compliance_5190_6/

My guess is the airport sponsor has already addressed a Phase 1 ban with the local FSDO. If not, the OP would need to do it, which would burn time. Meanwhile the prohibition stands. If the FAA ultimately rules against the sponsor, they won't "pull funding". They will simply make compliance a condition in the next funding application.

Note the specific prohibition against exceptions. The FAA will not allow the sponsor to enforce a rule if the sponsor grants exception to any user. It's all or nothing, everyone the same. In this case, posting a rule and granting an exception to the OP would be the violation of sponsor agreement, not the rule itself.

You run a repair station, so you know the deal about regulations ;)

FAA Regulation / Part 0, Section 000 (a) 1 (c)

Section I: No pilot or pilots, or person or persons acting on the direction or suggestion or supervision of a pilot or pilot may try, or attempt to try or make, or make attempt to try to comprehend or understand any or all, in whole or in part of the herein mentioned, Aviation Regulations, except as authorized by the administrator or an agent appointed by, or inspected by, the Administrator.

Section II: If a pilot, or group of associate pilots becomes aware of, or realized, or detects, or discovers, or finds that he or she, or they, are or have been beginning to understand the Aviation Regulations, they must immediately, within three (3) days notify, in writing, the Administrator.

Section III: Upon receipt of the above-mentioned notice of impending comprehension, the Administrator shall immediately rewrite the Aviation Regulations in such a manner as to eliminate any further comprehension hazards.

Section IV: The Administrator may, at his or her discretion, require the offending pilot or pilots to attend remedial instruction in Aviation Regulations until such time that the pilot is too confused to be capable of understanding anything.
 
I should start phase 1 pretty soon and moved to Bountifull Skypark because they don’t allow it out of South Valley. I talked to the FSDO office last week and they will not let me fly into Salt Lake, South Valley, or Tooele while under phase 1.
 
I hate to agree with authorities....but that is a particularly “embedded” airport - I flew a Cassutt for a magazine test that was based there, and asked the owner to ferry it to Tooele (where I flew it) because the airspace (and ground space) was really tight around U42.

Paul
 
Things change

I should start phase 1 pretty soon and moved to Bountifull Skypark because they don’t allow it out of South Valley. I talked to the FSDO office last week and they will not let me fly into Salt Lake, South Valley, or Tooele while under phase 1.
Things must have changed since it became Salt Lake #2, I did my phase 1 out of South Valley (2008), designated area was west of the airport and a narrow lane between the lake and the MOA to Wendover and could fly the valley by Tooele. Wonder why it changed, too much new construction in west valley?
Figs
 
Back
Top