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RV-10 Brake upgrade

Weefle

Well Known Member
My apologies if this has been asked before but I am trying to decide which path to go down for the brake upgrades:

If you have gone with Berringer did you do their master cylinders as well or use the stock Vans? Same question but if you went with Matco brakes did you use the Vans master cylinders?

If you used the stock master cylinders did everything work ok...are you happy with the install, any grief with plumbing it together?

Nose Wheel ...did you go with Berringer or Matco?

Is it worth having tubeless tires that Berringer does?

Any feed back appreciated

Keith
 
I think its all about personal preference. I left everything stock except for the front axle. It all works fine
 
Don't listen to Tim, he has more money then brains 😁

On another note, I'm happy with Matcos wheels and brakes with the stock master cylinders.
 
The stock brakes are fine but you can have brake fad if you lay on them hard. If you plan to just land at airports that have lots of asphalt stock brakes are not an issue. If you plan to land on something restricted, you will want to go with the after market brakes. Either brand is fine.
 
Rick, its not bad----BUT be advised that Beringer uses metric Banjo fittings, instead of standard hardware. They are made in France, so--
If you do decide at a later time to change things, you wont use the stock nylon hoses with banjo hose ends.
On the calipers, they mount different than the Matco or Grove, so you'll be doing a full upgrade.

Tom
 
After seeing the price difference between matco and Beringer......I think matco it will be. Somehow my brain is holding on to my money!
Thanks for the feedback!
 
Hi Keith!

I appreciate the question about brakes as I am in the same place as you on the build.

By the way, have you passed me up? My excuse: a very busy work week.
You need to wait up! I am just beginning the riveting of the skins on the horizontal stabilizer.

The answers to our question about brakes are hilarious!

Bottom line: whatever you wisely decide...I will do the same...decide well.

Andy
 
Hey Andy,
Just painfully going through the Deburr and dimple of the HS skins. Maybe this weekend I can get my bride convinced to run the rivet gun!

Seriously though the Beringers are choice.....but 6k vs 2k is a huge difference..

So much to think about I only want to do this once

Found out today the fuselage kit won’t get crated till Feb 15th so I have time

K
 
The stock brakes on the -10 are absolutely adequate. Though some may be upgrading to Beringer for better braking performance, we see most builders who choose Beringer doing so for several other additional reasons. Weight, Sealed Bearings, and Tubeless tires are three other mechanical components to consider when evaluating the Beringer system. In addition, Beringer has the option for an anti-skid valve as well as the coming "SensAIR" system that allows for easy remote tire pressure readings via a smartphone app.

On the other end of the equation is the "Money Tree." I haven't found one of those yet, and the Beringer components are definitely an up charge over the stock system.

For those who are looking to upgrade to Beringer, Tom and I would appreciate the opportunity to talk with you about it. We have a package worked out with Beringer that eliminates their "do it yourself" hose assemblies and credits those out of the price. We then provide our high quality pre-made teflon hoses which makes plumbing your entire brake system easy.

Happy building!!!!
Steve
 
funny

"...absolutely adequate..."

That's like excelling in mediocrity, right?:D

The biggest obstacle for me and the Beringer brakes was the cost...and it wasn't just a little bit more...

I opted for the middle ground, and chose the Matco system.
 
We'll for you Matco users, they have a large caliper option that seems to work well. Some of our Synergy Air South clients have them, and like them. Uses the stock length gear leg hose.
See Matco site:
WHLWI600XLT-2, WHL &BRK WI600 RV-10 CONFIG

Tom
 
"...absolutely adequate..."

That's like excelling in mediocrity, right?:D

The biggest obstacle for me and the Beringer brakes was the cost...and it wasn't just a little bit more...

I opted for the middle ground, and chose the Matco system.

Haha!!!! Exactly. :):):) But in all seriousness...the stock brakes are adequate. The Beringer system is extremely nice, but as you mentioned, a lot more costly.

I wouldn't personally upgrade to a Beringer system JUST for the increased braking. The truth is with our -10 we never flew it into a shorter than 3,000 foot runway anyways. Mileage may vary depending on how builders are using their planes. If all the reasons to upgrade to Beringer COMBINE to create a compelling value proposition, that is the decision some builders are making.

As Tom mentioned, the larger caliper option is also available and a lot of builders are going that route.
 
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As someone mentioned, the stock brakes are adequate until you really need them. We don't plan for those scenarios---they just happen. The stock brakes do fade with aggressive braking. I had that scenario once, and came home and upgraded to the MATCO brakes. I'm much happier.

We have also upgraded a number of customers brakes on the 10 to the MATCO wheels and brakes. They do not fade.

Just another opinion based upon some experienc. :)

Vic
 
My .02

I agree about fade on the stock brakes. Keep in mind that you (mostly) need brakes to turn as well.

I have had one experience with brake fade during fairly heavy braking, and it happened very suddenly right as I was turning. I lost most directional control. Not fun. As Vic said, we don’t plan for these situations - sometimes they happen.

My plan is to upgrade to the Matco brakes at my next condition inspection.

T.
 
Same question but if you went with Matco brakes did you use the Vans master cylinders?

Found out today the fuselage kit won’t get crated till Feb 15th so I have time

The stock cylinders that come with the Fuselage kit are Matco cylinders so if you go with Matco wheels/brakes then I don't think there is anything you need to worry about substituting in your fuselage kit. All the wheels and brakes come with the finishing kit, so perhaps you have even more time to think about it than you thought.
 
The brake pedals come with the fuselage kit so I wanted to ensure I didn’t get stuff I wouldn’t need by upgrading the brakes. You are right though I am a few hours away from needing wheels and brake assemblies.

Still looking for that elusive money tree though!

K
 
...but can you do it more than once?

Everything is just fine...until it isnt...


Yep. It does consume tires and pads quicker, but shorted consumable life is expected when running close to the edge of performance.

Vic mentioned brake fade. The only time I experienced brake fade was when I was racing motorcycles. Better pads and fluid will do more to prevent brake fade than anything else. Unfortunately, unlike bikes and cars, we don't have a huge selection of compounds for a given set of calipers.

I can't see how brake fade on an RV-10 would be an issue unless under heavy braking for an excessive amount of time. - landing too fast. Or a poorly maintained system - brakes dragging. Yes, I can see emergency situations where you would put the plane down fast, but then I think there might be better emergencies to prepare for. BRS, Electrical, second engine, etc.
 
The stock brake has a single cylinder and two pads. The Matco has three cylinders with four pads. My Rv-10 friend and advisor here in Vermont has the stock brakes. On a trip to Bangor Maine he was doing a long taxi in a strong cross wind the pads at the time where past 50% wear. The brakes got hot holding against the cross wind the O ring failed. The tower noticed the fire before he did and already sent the fire trucks. I went with the Matcos.
 
Yep. It does consume tires and pads quicker, but shorted consumable life is expected when running close to the edge of performance.

Vic mentioned brake fade. The only time I experienced brake fade was when I was racing motorcycles. Better pads and fluid will do more to prevent brake fade than anything else. Unfortunately, unlike bikes and cars, we don't have a huge selection of compounds for a given set of calipers.

I can't see how brake fade on an RV-10 would be an issue unless under heavy braking for an excessive amount of time. - landing too fast. Or a poorly maintained system - brakes dragging. Yes, I can see emergency situations where you would put the plane down fast, but then I think there might be better emergencies to prepare for. BRS, Electrical, second engine, etc.

To each his own...Personally, I think the brakes rank FAR higher than a BRS...
 
To each his own...Personally, I think the brakes rank FAR higher than a BRS...

It was just an example.

Agreed on to each his own.. I personally think the longevity and reliability of mags, mechanical FI and a stock engine outweigh the benefits of high horsepower and EFII. And I'm an IT guy / tech nerd and performance junkie.


As someone with a lot of braking system experience, I think many of the anecdotes mentioned in this thread are both a combination of poor maintenance and poor braking technique.

The only thing I'd be looking for in upgraded brakes is heat rejection. Having our brakes inside wheel pants certainly doesn't help dissipate heat. Vented rotors would be best. The stock brakes are capable of beyond threshold level braking - ie locking up the tires with smooth application. Of course abrupt application will lock them, not at all what I'm referring to.

All I'm getting at is, upgraded brakes won't stop you any faster without better (stickier) tire compounds or a method to transfer weight to the mains when braking, somewhat complicated by the fact that we brake with our rear axles.
 
The stock brakes on the -10 are absolutely adequate. Though some may be upgrading to Beringer for better braking performance, we see most builders who choose Beringer doing so for several other additional reasons. Weight, Sealed Bearings, and Tubeless tires are three other mechanical components to consider when evaluating the Beringer system. In addition, Beringer has the option for an anti-skid valve as well as the coming "SensAIR" system that allows for easy remote tire pressure readings via a smartphone app.

On the other end of the equation is the "Money Tree." I haven't found one of those yet, and the Beringer components are definitely an up charge over the stock system.

For those who are looking to upgrade to Beringer, Tom and I would appreciate the opportunity to talk with you about it. We have a package worked out with Beringer that eliminates their "do it yourself" hose assemblies and credits those out of the price. We then provide our high quality pre-made teflon hoses which makes plumbing your entire brake system easy.

Happy building!!!!
Steve

That is awesome Steve. Keep up the great work. I think I will be ready for a brake system next year. :)
 
In response to Keith re master cylinders: Vans provides Marco master cylinders MC4 which are fine to use with Marco brake upgrade. Don’t know about Beringer.
 
New builder here trying to gather information. Regarding the brake upgrades. Is there any appreciable weight savings over stock Van's brakes? I tried searching with no luck.

More specifically, what is that weight savings #?
 
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New builder here trying to gather information. Regarding the brake upgrades. Is there any appreciable weight savings over stock Van's brakes? I tried searching with no luck.

More specifically, what is that weight savings #?

I don't know about the mains, but I swapped out my nose tire/rim for the Berringer. The weight difference was .2 lbs and cost me $750.00 !! Berringer is great stuff, but very pricey for sure.........
 
I don't know about the mains, but I swapped out my nose tire/rim for the Berringer. The weight difference was .2 lbs and cost me $750.00 !! Berringer is great stuff, but very pricey for sure.........
Thanks, that is helpful context that there may be some weight savings but not nearly as much as I had thought.
 
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