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Are "drop shadow" n-numbers legal?

Steve Crewdog

Well Known Member
Patron
Designing my paint scheme, friend says it's legal to have "drop shadow" numbers. Since I live up by the Canadian border, when it eventually reopens I intend to do a lot of international flying and don't want to have a problem.



TIA


something like this, but in a plainer font

9ca6355c5f52fd2f35bea47c8bdbe166.gif
 
Yes...in the states, Probably not in CANADA.

For my trip up north, I did 12" applique numbers.
 

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Drop shadow is legal if it does not make the number confusing or difficult to read.

"Script" letters are NOT. Must be "block" letters and numbers.
 
I see it all the time in Canada on Cessna etc. It has to be subtle. One of those grey areas likely that can vary with inspector temperament. If u aren't sure find pictures of similar markings on airplanes to show your DER that he is not sticking his neck out.
 
See the AOPA sweepstakes RV-10:

I think the regs say something like the numbers must contrast the background.. I would think some fed would have a problem with these on the sweepstakes plane.. Part 45.21c3 if someone wants to look them up..
 
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I see it all the time in Canada on Cessna etc. It has to be subtle. One of those grey areas likely that can vary with inspector temperament. If u aren't sure find pictures of similar markings on airplanes to show your DER that he is not sticking his neck out.

Unfortunately, just because it's been done, doesn't mean it's legal!

For example, there are many aircraft flying with the N number on the fuselage under the horizontal stabilizer. This is NOT legal.
 
Yes...in the states, Probably not in CANADA.

For my trip up north, I did 12" applique numbers.

By my read it's not required. I carry the Canada Standardized Validation in my plane, and according to it:
4. the nationality and registration marks assigned to the aircraft by the Federal Aviation Administration shall be displayed on the aircraft in accordance with the requirements of the United States;

I'd be interested to know if there's some rule that conflicts with this. I've flown my -6 with 3 inch numbers across the border a bunch of times and never been called out on it.
 
Take a look at FAR part 45. Must be 3"; Roman block; spacing 1/2 distance of height, contrasting color. Having said that, I have never heard of a Fed busting a guy for fancy N numbers as long as they are legible.

Gary Brown
DAR
 
Yes...in the states, Probably not in CANADA.
It is legal in Canada, but the drop shadow doesn't count when measuring letter heights.

For my trip up north, I did 12" applique numbers.
Not necessary for US aircraft. If your letters are legal in the US they are legal in Canada as well even if they don't meet the requirements for Canadian registrations on Canadian aircraft.
 
I think FAR 45.21(c)(2) is the clause that will get you... Is "ornamentation" defined anywhere?

FAR 45.21 said:
(c) Aircraft nationality and registration marks must—
...
(2) Have no ornamentation;

calpilot said:
Take a look at FAR part 45. Must be 3"; Roman block;
Careful how you read that. It doesn't say "block" in the FAR. It only says it must have Roman letters, ie. A, B, C, D, etc. Font, and form of font, is not specified:

FAR 45.23 said:
(a) Each operator of an aircraft shall display on that aircraft marks consisting of the Roman capital letter “N” (denoting United States registration) followed by the registration number of the aircraft. Each suffix letter used in the marks displayed must also be a Roman capital letter.
 
Yes...in the states, Probably not in CANADA.

For my trip up north, I did 12" applique numbers.

Every so often Transport Canada gets on a rampage about lettering size/style but, well, it's their own fault. You need a law degree to interpret the requirements as stated in the CARs. MD-RA made it a bit easier by laying out font format examples, so we've moved from muddy waters to merky waters.
 
By my read it's not required. I carry the Canada Standardized Validation in my plane, and according to it:
4. the nationality and registration marks assigned to the aircraft by the Federal Aviation Administration shall be displayed on the aircraft in accordance with the requirements of the United States;

I'd be interested to know if there's some rule that conflicts with this. I've flown my -6 with 3 inch numbers across the border a bunch of times and never been called out on it.

The US calls for 12” numbers if crossing an ADIZ. Most of the US-Canada border is not an ADIZ.
 
The national regulations for registration markings derive from the international standard of ICAO Annex 7. Though the US have filed differences from that standard that allow no underwing registration.

That standard specifies no ornamentation and Roman capital letters.

I think authorities are traditionally lenient on strict enforcement if the markings are clearly legible. But if you want to be safe and fly internationally, then plain contrasting 30cm high letters would be a good idea.
 
Every so often Transport Canada gets on a rampage about lettering size/style but, well, it's their own fault. You need a law degree to interpret the requirements as stated in the CARs. MD-RA made it a bit easier by laying out font format examples, so we've moved from muddy waters to merky waters.
The wording is awkward, but it has to cover a lot of cases. For Van's aircraft, it boils down to two very simple options (for Canada):

a. 30cm (~12") letters on the side of the fuselage.
b. 15cm (~6") letters on the tail, and 50cm (~20") letters under the wings.

None of the exemptions allowing smaller than 15cm/6" letters apply, because both of the default options are easily achievable on all Van's aircraft. The exemptions are only applicable if the defaults are not achievable.
 
I think the regs say something like the numbers must contrast the background.. I would think some fed would have a problem with these on the sweepstakes plane.. Part 45.21c3 if someone wants to look them up..
That's OK. When I win it, I'm gonna fly it anyway. :D
 
See the AOPA sweepstakes RV-10:

Regardless of what their sidebar in the magazine says, I maintain that the registration marks on the AOPA RV-10 are not legal. I would definitely not issue an airworthiness certificate to that aircraft as marked. And if I were to win it (yeah, fat chance) I would definitely change the N numbers to meet the regulation.
 
Regardless of what their sidebar in the magazine says, I maintain that the registration marks on the AOPA RV-10 are not legal. I would definitely not issue an airworthiness certificate to that aircraft as marked. And if I were to win it (yeah, fat chance) I would definitely change the N numbers to meet the regulation.

2007p_bf_sweeps_16x9.jpg


I had to go find the image. I agree with everything Joe said.
 
I will join Joe, Gary, and Vic!

The "N26" is definitely not in contrast with the background.
 
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2007p_bf_sweeps_16x9.jpg


I had to go find the image. I agree with everything Joe said.

At some point you have to stop thinking legally and start thinking common sensely. "If I went NORDO at night crossing the US-Canadian border, would the intercepting aircraft be able to easily read those numbers at night from 500'?"


Uhhhhhh....... OMG?
 
Is *any* of the US-Canada border an ADIZ?

I put that in for contrarians: if you took off from Anchorage, flew south over the pacific, then turned east into Canada, you’d cross an ADIZ. Not likely in an RV.

As to the aopa -10, I agree with others, not legible. OTOH I’m not sure it’s worse than 3” letters, which are legal. Question for the DARs: if the owner added 3” letters on the vertical fin, and kept the 12” letters too, would that make the airplane legal?
 
I put that in for contrarians: if you took off from Anchorage, flew south over the pacific, then turned east into Canada, you’d cross an ADIZ. Not likely in an RV.

In that case you would no longer be crossing a US-Canadian border, but entering the US from international waters, eh?

In 2015 a SeaRey DID fly directly into Alaskan airspace from CONUS without transiting Canadian airspace. With apologies to the Mods and the indulgence of the RV community, please let me introduce you to a glorious form of insanity, the circumnavigation of the world in a SeaRey by Michael Smith in his Southern Sun. http://www.southernsun.voyage/story

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHtGDNzjdyA&ab_channel=SunNewsreels
 
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At some point you have to stop thinking legally and start thinking common sensely. "If I went NORDO at night crossing the US-Canadian border, would the intercepting aircraft be able to easily read those numbers at night from 500'?"
Practically speaking, wouldn't every call after the initial one likely be reduced to "zero mike golf" anyway? :) But I still agree the N26 doesn't meet the requirements.
 
Practically speaking, wouldn't every call after the initial one likely be reduced to "zero mike golf" anyway? :) But I still agree the N26 doesn't meet the requirements.

Depends on how much trouble you're in. When my mom said "Steve..." I was ok. When she said "STEPHEN CREWDOG.", I jumped.
 
I don't know that there is anything in the regs that says you CAN'T add another set of 3" numbers, perhaps right under the AOPA logo on the vertical stabilizer, so that could work.

I do know this----if it were my airplane, I would at least carry a set of 3" vinyl numbers in the airplane so that some inspector at some out of the way airport wouldn't ground the airplane (which he/she could legally do in this case).

Vic
 
I do know this----if it were my airplane, I would at least carry a set of 3" vinyl numbers in the airplane so that some inspector at some out of the way airport wouldn't ground the airplane (which he/she could legally do in this case).

Vic
I'll be sure to do that when I win it!
 
I will probably goof this story up as it was a few years back and second hand but,
There was a complaint about the FAA hanging out at airshows looking for violations. Air shows and fly-ins had been mostly considered off limits for this.

One year there was an uproar because the FAA wrote some tickets to a SX300 group for shadowed numbers but these were not just shadowed but also very little contrast.
 
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