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Tilting Canopy vs Slider

Robb

Well Known Member
I was told by a buddy of mine that has an RV 7 with a tilting canopy that his plane has an emergency release handle that will release the canopy in the event of an emergency. I was wondering what the consensus re the safety feature of this mod? Also wondering if this is one reason some pilots prefer a sliding canopy over a tilt type?
 
Personal preference really, I have a slider with pull pins on the front rollers, lots of discussion on here as to if you can even open it during flight, but there ya go.
 
I was told by a buddy of mine that has an RV 7 with a tilting canopy that his plane has an emergency release handle that will release the canopy in the event of an emergency. I was wondering what the consensus re the safety feature of this mod? Also wondering if this is one reason some pilots prefer a sliding canopy over a tilt type?

Neither can be opened in flight or when upside down on the ground. I?ve had both and much prefer the slider.

Superior visibility , yes , the front bow is a non issue but the visibility to the side and rear quarters much superior ( no tip up roll bar in the way)

Much nicer to taxi with on a hot day

No water flowing onto instruments especially when opening canopy

Tip up acts as a sail in high winds and will move the aircraft on the ground as you try to run around and put chocks in, make sure you have a parking brake.

Friend forgot to put it down when pushing into hanger and caught it on the opening of the hanger, serious damage

Peter
 
Yes, there is a lot of discussion. I was building an RV-7 slider, for all the reasons Peter mentioned (plus the extra "cool factor" of course). Now I'm flying an RV-12, which is tip-up only. I have to say, issues with the tip-up are greatly exaggerated. Yes, you do have to exercise some care with it on the ground if there's more than a slight breeze. My rule is, I never leave it open if I'm not there to hold it. It's not as big a deal as you'd think. It's easy to pop open a few inches or more during taxi, and ventilation is pretty good - though not quite as good as a slider, I'm sure. Still, in a hot and humid Nebraska summer it's not that bad. Visibility is just fantastic. Front, sides, up, down, behind. The only inconvenience is that once in a while my wife or I will go to point something out and stick our finger into the canopy.

As for jettisoning in flight... seriously... think of a situation where you'd really ever want to do that.

I'm certainly not pushing the tip-up as being better than the slider. The best advice I ever got on the subject was the same as the advice I got for which end to put the third wheel. Build what you want.

It is interesting, though, that Van's has not introduced a new model with a sliding canopy option in 15 years.
 
I have a tip up RV7A and just finished some work on the avionics (replaced Navworx ADS-B with uAvionix) and once again wondered how I would have done this kind of work with a slider. And the visibility from the tip-up is unmatched!

Bob Cowan
RV7A close to 500 hrs
 
I have a tip up RV7A and just finished some work on the avionics (replaced Navworx ADS-B with uAvionix) and once again wondered how I would have done this kind of work with a slider. And the visibility from the tip-up is unmatched!

Bob Cowan
RV7A close to 500 hrs

My slider panel is removable with a few screws and gives excellent access. Have made several changes since first flight, I found it just as easy as the changes I had to make to my tipup panel.

I compare the visibility as that between a P51D and P51A turtle deck, with the P51D the all round view is excellent (thats why they built it) whereas with the P51A you are blocked to the rear, the front bow is very minor. Obviously the tip up has excellant visibility, but not the full 360, you never know when an f18 might get an your tail and you have to shake him off.
 
At this station in life my neck is no longer flexible enough for me to see what is on my six.....I enjoy the unlimited forward and side vision of my tip-up.

(Off to pop more corn.....)
 
Personal preference really, I have a slider with pull pins on the front rollers, lots of discussion on here as to if you can even open it during flight, but there ya go.
I recently saw a Youtube video of an emergency water landing with a slider in Italy. The slider canopy was open all the way as the airplane hit the water and inverted. The pilot must have opened it while in flight.
 
I can only say that I have been upside down in a slider. If you take a straight line from the nose of the tip up to the roll bar. For me I would prefer to be upside down in a slider.
Obviously in either case it would not be pleasant.
Do all you can NOT to be upside down.
Dave
 
Superior visibility , yes , the front bow is a non issue but the visibility to the side and rear quarters much superior ( no tip up roll bar in the way)
I've been following this debate since I started building my -6 nearly 20 years ago. In all that time, this is probably the first time I've heard someone make the case that visibility is better in a slider!

Sam- pass the popcorn.
 
I recently saw a Youtube video of an emergency water landing with a slider in Italy. The slider canopy was open all the way as the airplane hit the water and inverted. The pilot must have opened it while in flight.
Probably. Doing so might make your eventual egress easier... or it might prevent you from egressing at all if you are knocked unconscious because you sacrificed the protection afforded by a closed canopy. Water can be awfully hard. Chose your poison, but think it through ahead of time and chose carefully.
 
Pointing out the YouTube video was not to suggest favoring one canopy over the other. It was a response to the comment that the slider canopy cannot be opened in flight.
 
I recently saw a Youtube video of an emergency water landing with a slider in Italy. The slider canopy was open all the way as the airplane hit the water and inverted. The pilot must have opened it while in flight.

it was an emergency landing after a collision , engine shut down .... the pilot managed the emergency landing very good opening the canopy before touch down but when the plane hit the water and inverted the canopy slide forward and close again so it was impossible for him to vacate the plane , it was only with the help of some people in the beach nearby that his was rescued .....so install a device to block the canopy in the open position otherwise when it happen to invert it behaves like a tip up
 
Southern Comfort...

I can only say that I have been upside down in a slider. If you take a straight line from the nose of the tip up to the roll bar. For me I would prefer to be upside down in a slider.
Obviously in either case it would not be pleasant.
Do all you can NOT to be upside down.
Dave
Dave,
As a Southern Jurassic RV4 and current RV6X Slider owner, canopy type boils down to one thing, comfort.
Having flown a very well air conditioned Jet with a forward tilt-Up (F-16C) for 25 years, I appreciate how hot it gets in an RV on the ground or in the air in the summertime. Visibility is another thing, no canopy bow=better visibility, no argument there. The F-16 and tilt-up RV share that distinction and it is nice.
However comma, for me comfort wins. Taxiing the 6X on the ground with my arm on the rail is well, nice. My RV4 canopy was high enough to allow the same.

As far as jettison goes, my Four had a pin that held the canopy open well above the rail and I cut slots in my rail on the RV6X Slider so it can be removed/jettisoned if need be. The RV4 plans say it will "tear away" if slightly opened inflight as several owners inadvertently discovered. In the F-16 any landing gear EP included optional Canopy Jettison. That said, I have slowed my 6X down enough to slide the canopy aft inflight. High AOA is the key, the higher the Alpha, the easier it is to slide open and potentially jettison.

I 've witnessed two RV nose dragger flip-overs right in front of me, both from botched/buffooned landings turned PIO, nose-first touchdown, broken off nose gear. No anti splat device would have helped and both individuals would have been trapped a long time without help. Both, very avoidable.
The other scenario is a engine failure/forced landing off-airport in questionable terrain. My personal technique is I carry a Smith&Wesson 9/11 tool (glass breaker/cutter)https://www.amazon.com/Wesson-Response-Rescue-Seatbelt-Cutter/dp/B009XN12UM I plan on canopy jettison if time/altitude permit.



V/R
Smokey
 
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Dave,
As a Southern Jurassic RV4 and current RV6X Slider owner, canopy type boils down to one thing, comfort.
Having flown a very well air conditioned Jet with a forward tilt-Up (F-16C) for 25 years, I appreciate how hot it gets in an RV on the ground or in the air in the summertime. Visibility is another thing, no canopy bow=better visibility, no argument there. The F-16 and tilt-up RV share that distinction and it is nice.
However comma, for me comfort wins. Taxiing the 6X on the ground with my arm on the rail is well, nice. My RV4 canopy was high enough to allow the same.

As far as jettison goes, my Four had a pin that held the canopy open well above the rail and I cut slots in my rail on the RV6X Slider so it can be removed/jettisoned if need be. The RV4 plans say it will "tear away" if slightly opened inflight as several owners inadvertently discovered. In the F-16 any landing gear EP included optional Canopy Jettison. That said, I have slowed my 6X down enough to slide the canopy aft inflight. High AOA is the key, the higher the Alpha, the easier it is to slide open and potentially jettison.

I 've witnessed two RV nose dragger flip-overs right in front of me, both from botched/buffooned landings turned PIO, nose-first touchdown, broken off nose gear. No anti splat device would have helped and both individuals would have been trapped a long time without help. Both, very avoidable.
The other scenario is a engine failure/forced landing off-airport in questionable terrain. My personal technique is I carry a Smith&Wesson 9/11 tool (glass breaker/cutter) and plan on canopy jettison if time/altitude permit.



V/R
Smokey

Hey Smokey, knife looks nice. Any idea if that's made in the good old USA?

Brian
 
Of note the tip up on the 12 and 14 is very well engineered with much more pre-fabricated as compared to the 6 and 7. I felt the 12 as a tip up was much easier than the slider 9s and 7s I built so I assume the 14 is the same too.

With that said by my observations and help on a friends tip up 9, I think the slider is easier for the 6,7,9 models. It is much easier to adjust to fit with fiberglass covering up an miss-alignments at the windshield junctions and in my case by fabrication a carbon fiber reinforced rear skirt. I probably spent 100 hours on my recent slider and I suspect my friend invested over 300 hours on his tip up.

Panel access is now a non-event with a well designed assembly with the big holes for two glass panels. Remove the displays and you have direct access.
 
Personal preference really, I have a slider with pull pins on the front rollers, lots of discussion on here as to if you can even open it during flight, but there ya go.

I recently saw a Youtube video of an emergency water landing with a slider in Italy. The slider canopy was open all the way as the airplane hit the water and inverted. The pilot must have opened it while in flight.
If you put the flaps down and slow the plane down, you can probably open the slider in flight.

The real question is, can you get it open in level flight, at speed?
 
If you put the flaps down and slow the plane down, you can probably open the slider in flight.

The real question is, can you get it open in level flight, at speed?

Anyone willing to try (with a safety chute)? Also, is there any info about being able to open either a slider or tip-up during a spin if one ever needed to bail with a chute in flight?
 
If you put the flaps down and slow the plane down, you can probably open the slider in flight.

The real question is, can you get it open in level flight, at speed?

I think this has been discussed here on VAF at length, and the answer is yes, the slider can be opened in flight and there is at least two document cases and one with an egress... speed is unclear.

http://www.vansairforce.net/articles/Ditching.htm

https://www.ntsb.gov/about/employme...ev_id=20001212X19358&ntsbno=SEA99FA113&akey=1

There may be others.
 
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Anyone willing to try (with a safety chute)? Also, is there any info about being able to open either a slider or tip-up during a spin if one ever needed to bail with a chute in flight?

The tip-up can open in flight. I have taken off with it unlatched during my 40 hours. It just floats open a few inches. To close it, I recommend landing; however, if you slow down, put out the flaps, you can close it again.
 
I think this has been discussed here on VAF at length, and the answer is yes, the slider can be opened in flight and there is at least two document cases and one with an egress... speed is unclear.

http://www.vansairforce.net/articles/Ditching.htm

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=38485

There may be others.

Both of those are RV-8's. I assumed we were talking about the -6/7/9 since there is no tip-up available for the -8. Completely different airframe with different air loads.

If you do a search on the side-by-side RV's who have left the canopy open, apparently they won't budge with air loads applied.
 
Both of those are RV-8's. I assumed we were talking about the -6/7/9 since there is no tip-up available for the -8. Completely different airframe with different air loads.

If you do a search on the side-by-side RV's who have left the canopy open, apparently they won't budge with air loads applied.

Appears that the side-by-side sliders can also be opened in flight with not so desirable results.

https://generalaviationnews.com/2016/06/17/rv-6-canopy-opens-in-flight-with-fatal-consequences/
 
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Ease of exit

As an older guy with a tip up 6A I was curious if it's easier to exit from a slider cockpit once you're on the ground and parked? John
 
I built an early -6 before the slider was even an option. No disputing the visibility is truly awesome. When I had the opportunity to purchase a friend's -7 QB kit I initially balked because it was a slider, having been spoiled by the tip up visibility. I couldn't resist because the price was right. I have been quite happy with the slider, and the addition of the Super Tracks mod is highly recommended. I always worried about a bird strike taking the whole tip up canopy out, whereas I believe the slider provides superior bird strike protection. I also have quick release pins on the forward rollers, as well as a Flyboys canopy breaker tool. The degree of difficulty regarding installation was equally challenging.
 
Let me be clear to say: I do not suggest anyone try this.
But, I can say for certain:
An RV 6 slider can be opened in flight without catastrophe.

Here is my experience: My friend who built the 6 said from his experience that if left open on takeoff, it won't budge either way.
On accident, I took off with the slider cracked. After climb out, I tried to close it. It would not budge either direction.
But, as I am also concerned with egress from a forced landing, I tried an experiment.
On very short final, 70 mph, i opened the canopy. It was not difficult to open at that speed. I did not have any pitch deviations. But what was very noticeable was the increase in drag. I think I even had to add a bit of power to offset.
My take away: it can be opened easily inflight at approach speed. But expect substantial increase in drag.

I have tried to come up with a wedge to shove into the track to keep it from slamming closed on impact, but have been unsuccessful in finding something.
If someone has an idea of some type of wedge, I'd be interested.

Again: I do not recommend what I did.
 
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