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Odyssey Batteries going on us???

It is nice to have a recovery system available to get these batteries back in place but it does not answer the question regarding the quality of recent 680 batteries vs the older 680 batteries.
My first 680 lasted three years and I replaced it due to IFR and EI system concerns. It was still cranking the engine well. It was still running strong and still operates in my seldom used rotor-tiller. The replacement 680 started to get tired in the first year and I struggled with it for another year until replacement with a new unit last fall. This new battery, while better then the one it replaced is still not as good as the original 680. I have not really treated the batteries very differently and I regularly fly about 100 hours per year.
I wonder why there is this quality difference?
 
I've been reading with much interest here. I think ill whip up a raspberry pi to automate all of this recovery cycling with data logging.
 
Scott, that would be a great project. I'd probably follow your lead if you get a design worked up. I'd like an excuse to learn how to use the raspberry pi.
 
Test load

BTW: My answer to load the battery has been to hook it up to my house's 12V landscape lighting system. It's pulling a little over 2A, so we'll see how it works. For my next iteration, I might have to go buy a car lightbulb.
 
OCV

Something that hasn't been stressed in this thread is that the battery should be drawn down until the voltage is 10 volts, OPEN CIRCUIT VOLTAGE (OCV). That means that you should read the battery voltage after removing the lamp or other draw from the circuit.
If you read the voltage while the load is still connected, you will be removing the load prematurely.
10 volts OCV is a very nearly flat battery.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

Edit: Here is a link that describes a Load Test Procedure for returned batteries:
http://www.odysseybattery.com/documents/Loadtestprocedureforfield-returnedOdyssey-Rev1.pdf

Second Edit: Link to Odyssey Tech manual, or everything you ever wanted to know about Odyssey batteries:
http://www.odysseybattery.com/documents/US-ODY-TM-001_0411_000.pdf
 
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I just ended my first discharge cycle - the battery was down to less than 9 volts (open circuit). I didn't even know it would get that low.
 
You guys are using chargers specifically for AGM batteries right? Desulfators? Not just a smart charger, but one made specifically for AGM batteries. I learned that lesson the hard way, motorcycle, ATV, race car, camper....that's a lot of cooked batteries in a year thanks to battery tender "smart" chargers cooking them. Tender didn't have AGM ability on those...switched to Better chargers and all is well now.
 
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You guys are using chargers specifically for AGM batteries right? Desulfators? Not just a smart charger, but one made specifically for AGM batteries. I learned that lesson the hard way, motorcycle, ATV, race car, camper....that's a lot of cooked batteries in a year thanks to battery tender "smart" chargers cooking them. Tender didn't have AGM ability on those...switched to Better chargers and all is well now.

Yes, but really not necessary... tons of documentation on this issue, here is just one from Source Optima. http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/general/hrdp_1009_how_to_charge_a_agm_battery/viewall.html
 
the battery should be drawn down until the voltage is 10 volts, OPEN CIRCUIT VOLTAGE (OCV). That means that you should read the battery voltage after removing the lamp or other draw from the circuit.
If you read the voltage while the load is still connected, you will be removing the load prematurely.
10 volts OCV is a very nearly flat battery.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

You are very much correct...
 
yup, so easy. No real engineering to be done. Voltage and rate is so terribly easy. A couple more days to a usable weekend to tinker with some relays on a load.
 
I just ended my first discharge cycle - the battery was down to less than 9 volts (open circuit). I didn't even know it would get that low.

I've taken mine down to 3-4 volts forgetting the master switch while installing and setting up the GR Sport EFIS. The recharge with the Odyssey Ultimizer was interesting. The charger would take it up serval volts at a time and quit with a red flashing warning the battery had internal problems. I turned it off and started over several times and when the charge got up to 10 volts or so, it took it all way way to 14-15 volts with no more charging failures.

I do not think the battery was harmed, just needed to be coddled a bit to bring it back to life. It cranks the Lycoming with vigor and recharges quickly on the alternator.
 
I used a 12 volt automotive headlight (40/60) on the low beam to discharge my newest battery--(ocv 10 v or lower) and then an Odyssey Ultimizer to bring it back. Ran 6 cycles on the newest battery (less than one year old) and gave up--it would take a charge (indicated 13+volts) but it would only bump the prop. I sent that one back to battery mart.

I then pulled the older battery off the storage shelf, ran it through the rejuvenation process and it is being used in the aircraft now (works good) while I wait on the return from BatteryMart.

I agree with Tom---something is not right here with some or all of the latest batch of Odysseys.

Cheers,
db
 
Enersys response

So I wrote an e-mail to Enersys asking about the Odysseys. They were very responsive, writing me back first thing the next day. According to the company, "There have been no changes to the PC680 battery by design or material." They also offered to take my battery back and replace it with a new one so they can investigate. I told them that I'm first going to do due diligence and try to restore this one with desulfation procedures, but if it doesn't work I'll take them up on it.

Cheers,
 
Good thread.

My Odyssey Battery is weak too. Was wondering if it was unique to my batt. Only a couple years old.

It gets put on an Odyssey Optimiser between flights also.

Figured I'd go with the Odyssey batt charger to maintain the charge would be best but, there I go think'n again.

Sounds like cycling it a few times is in its future. :rolleyes:
 
My PC 680 is about 7 years old and has had two "left the master on" episodes. Still running great. But, I'm probably on borrowed time and I'm sure it won't be long until a replacement would be a good idea.

Before this thread, I would have recommended one without hesitation, but now I'm not so sure.

So, what's plan B? Is there anything else with the footprint of the Odyssey that is a viable substitute? Or, do we have to break out the building skills and make room for a Concorde?

Dan
 
Enersys Comments

I asked Enersys about my charger. I have an Accumate Pro that has an "Odyssey" mode for charging AGM batteries. Here is the response:

"The Accumate charger is a great charger and we fully support this charger and its effective recharge and float charge of ODYSSEY PowerSport battery models.
Do not leave this charge connected to a battery without being plugged into AC utility power, as the charge will discharge the battery."

That second bit was interesting. I never would have thought that the charger would discharge the battery just because it wasn't plugged into AC. I think I've done this before - left it plugged into the battery but not the wall. That could be a contributing factor to my issues. And I'm definitely not giving up on Odyssey yet. As with any technology, there are some pitfalls with user error and maintenance required. If I can bring it back with some desulfating procedures and learn something about taking care of the battery, then all's well that ends well.
 
My less than 2yr old PC 680 is weak also

I still use my original PC 680 now about 7yrs old to run a sprayer pump and as a back up for running a trolling motor, it still works great. It has never had any special treatment other than a float charge during periods of non use. My new (less than 2yr old) PC 680 does not seem to be the same battery. It's noticeably weaker already, barely swinging the prop. What's different???:confused:
 
Question?

I have been reading this and would like to ask if anyone knows if these units have been made in China. Or if they have moved to a China based lead use. I have noted that a trend to having to switch to China made lead products has been growing over the last two-three years. And I don't know if I like that idea. Thanks guys. Yours as always R.E.A. III #80888
 
My Odyessy battery is about 5 years old and I have been connecting to a battery tender 800 charger and they battery has been functioning without any issues. It cranks just as strong as the first day and I am hoping to continue the same. There is no sign that the battery charger has had any negative effect on the battery thus far.
 
Adventures in battery science

I've been trying the Odyssey "recovery" procedures this weekend. As it turns out, the process is not as straightforward as I thought it would be. First of all, the times for my battery and charger to do its thing were quite different from others experience, I think. It has taken a full day to run through each cycle, so I've only done 2 over the weekend. Some data-crunching:
#1: about 1:30 to discharge from 12.2 to 8.8 V (under 30W load, which is about 2.4A at 12 volts). 9 hours to fully charge!
#2: about 2:10 to discharge from 12.2 to 8.8 V (under 30W load). Still charging after 7 hrs, so not sure how long it will fully take.
So improvement there, but not dramatic and not as clear-cut of a result as other folks have had. Maybe I'll get a chance to do one more cycle, but it does take all day so I don't think I will.

Note that my numbers above do NOT reference 10V of OCV. I took lots of notes of time and voltages, but it was not as easy as I thought it would be.
The main thing that has made this more confusing is the question of "Open Circuit Voltage". As was mentioned in an earlier post, the assumption is that you have to discharge the battery to the point where it is at 10V, without any load (i.e. open-circuit). But does that mean instantaneously after removing the load? Because when I remove the light bulb I'm burning, the voltage of my battery instantly starts to increase and it keeps slowly increasing for 20-60 minutes before it stabilizes. I'm actually experimenting with 2 batteries - one of them increased from 6.8V to 10.3V over the course of an hour after removing the light bulb. I've found that getting an OCV of 10V or less takes a reading well below 6V with the load on it. Is that a sign of a good, bad or indifferent battery? I don't know. Hopefully next weekend I'll get to take my batteries back out to the airport and see if all this fooling around revived the batteries or not.

Cheers,
 
Serial #?

Maybe it would be interesting if people could write their Odyssey serial numbers here?

Then we could find if it's any trend going on?

For starters, here's mine, bought from Vans in 2006: #0706.
It was installed in the plane 3rd June 2008 and has been there since.
 
Thanks

Grate idea, thanks Mr. Olav. It would be good for all of us to see if there is a quality control issue going on with these battery's. Looking at the batch numbers or lot runs, would be a good place to start. Thanks.
Yours as always R.E.A. III #80888
 
The serial # is the long number on the front side of the battery. The Born date is the bottom number on the left tag on the battery. I've posted my born date... 02/12/2012
 
I have a 2.5 yr old 925 that shows 12.8 V after sitting a few weeks. I am on my second 680 aux battery and it has to be recharged with the recommended Optimiser charger if allowed to sit for 5 days or longer. Maybe someday we will have a not so finicky battery available to us.
 
My PC680 has these numbers:
0769-2016
0412

It will go back this week.

Put in the plane in April of 2012, and it started dying in about November 2013. Measured voltage today before removing it - 12.0 volts (i.e., quite low). It was only 2 weeks since it was flown, and last time was only about a week since previous flight, and it barely started it. Charging voltage 14.0 - 14.2. Last battery was still doing well after 6 or 7 years, but I felt obligated to change it.
 
PC680 variants

I went to the Stored Energy Products and found about a dozen different variants of the PC680. Which is the battery used in the RVs? Isn't the 170 CCA a little low?

Jim
N444JT
 
I went to the Stored Energy Products and found about a dozen different variants of the PC680. Which is the battery used in the RVs? Isn't the 170 CCA a little low?

Jim
N444JT

I was only able to find two on their site - PC680 and PC680MJ, for metal jacket. Their website is a bit goofy, showing duplicates for different replacements, etc. I've been using the one identified as PC680. CCA is 220, and it will really spin up an O-360 well.
 
The originals were rated at 220CCA and now the newer ones are rated at 170CCA.

Odyssey says nothing changed but the label.
 
The originals were rated at 220CCA and now the newer ones are rated at 170CCA.

Odyssey says nothing changed but the label.

And that statement from Odyssey makes NO since what so ever. They must think we were all born at night! :mad: I call BS on that.
 
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And that statement from Odyssey make NO since what so ever. They must think we were all born at night! :mad: I call BS on that.

I agree, their defense was that the original battery capacity had only been estimated and that once they actually tested it, they had to lower the rating.

IDUNO????
 
It's better

After going through the procedures last week, I took the battery back out and installed it back in the airplane today. It spun the engine up no problem - far better than last time! I left the battery on the charger when I left since I only flew for about 40 minutes. I 'think' that it's essentially fixed. If it acts up again, I'll come back to this thread, but if you don't hear from me then you can chalk up a successful rehabilitation of a PC680, as far as I'm concerned.
 
After going through the procedures last week, I took the battery back out and installed it back in the airplane today. It spun the engine up no problem - far better than last time! I left the battery on the charger when I left since I only flew for about 40 minutes. I 'think' that it's essentially fixed. If it acts up again, I'll come back to this thread, but if you don't hear from me then you can chalk up a successful rehabilitation of a PC680, as far as I'm concerned.

Don't put the battery on the charger, forty minutes flying is more than enough to charge the battery. Using that charger will put you right back in the situation you had before. Fly your plane every week or so and leave the charger on the bench.
 
I agree, don't use the charger unless the battery is discharged enough to allow the charger to stay in its absorption phase long enough to work. Most likely yours just flipped into trickle mode shortly after hooking it up.
 
As I understand this the charger is not doing any harm, it is just not doing any good either. The problem occurs when battery has not received an adequate absorption phase charge after a partial discharge.
 
Ditto what Mike said. There many many many of us with PC680s that rarely use the charger at all and have had outstanding battery life. If you fly your plane fairly regularlly there is no need to use the charger short of leaving your master on or extended fiddling with the avionics after shut down.
Erich
 
Enersys guidance

Since I regularly go 2-4 weeks between flights (unfortunately), I'm electing to leave the battery on the charger. Possibly not necessary, I agree, but for now I'm sticking with the manufacturer (Enersys) recommendation:

"When the Accumate charger has completed the charge cycle, it should go into a continuous float charge, with float voltage between 13.5V to 13.8V.
Please confirm with a hand held digital voltmeter that this takes place. If the charger maintains a continuous float in this range, then we recommend that."

I'll be the guinea pig for those that think it is harming the battery. If I'm back to having problems in a few months - well, then I'll change the policy and see what happens.
 
just another data point

My old Concorde RG-25 lasted about 6 years, flying only once a month for an hour or less.
charged once during an extended winter of no flying, but it never failed to start the engine, I just figured it was due, and starting to show 12.4 volts or so after a long period of inactivity.
My replacement, a PC925 Odyssey is now 18 months old, and also sits for a month or 2 between short flights. So far, seems to crank ok, even at freezing temps.
Never been hooked to a charger. ( can't, don't etc.)
 
More Data

Received an email from the PC 680 vendor from whom I purchased (see postings #ed 19 & 63). The less than one year old PC 680 FAILED their testing and they are shipping a new replacement---something is not right with these newer 680's!!

Sorry, I do not have the serial # for the bad unit.

Cheers,

db
 
Yes...

l my efforts were short lived... I also have a replacement on the way. :) They sent a return tag for the old battery, it is going to the lab for tests and evaluation hopefully to resolve this issue.
 
One More Data Point . . .

Add me to the list of owners with PC 680 issues. Original PC-680 purchased in early 2003 got a fair amount of use in avionics testing, etc etc. before first flight in late 2004, and continued to provide good service until I replaced it in early 2011. It was still performing fine but I felt it was due for a change as a preventive measure. It never had a battery tender on it. When I took it out, I left it sitting in the hangar.

The new PC 680 has had a tender on it (Schauer CM1A, supposedly a smart device) for most of its life, and probably as early as 2012 began to exhibit signs of slow cranking and "not being able to do any real work", as one poster on this thread put it. Finally, it failed to turn the engine over on a cold day last month.

I pulled it out, ran it through the desulfating process using a Schauer CM16A charger, and did lots of reading on this and similar threads. It seems to charge up fine but then slowly loses charge while sitting on the bench, dropping below the ~12.84 volts that Odyssey says is 100% charge. Now, about 10 days after charging, its at ~12.5 volts.

The OLD battery went on the charger, charges up properly, and holds ~12.84 volts. Interestingly, with the new one, even though a charge puts it perhaps 0.1 volt higher than the old battery, it loses charge faster than the old one.

So....... the old one went back in the plane yesterday. Fired right up, charging at 14.6 volts and settling in at ~14.5 volts with engine running.

The battery tender has been consigned to the parts shelf.... :rolleyes:
 
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Got the new warranty replacement PC680 from Battery Mart----spins the engine like it should--sure looks like there was a bad batch of 680's released in the last couple of years. Again, the first two I had gave great service--not so for the one purchased early last year!! Just hope the new one "goes the distance"!

Cheers,

db
 
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