What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

The Perfection Trap

Pmerems

Well Known Member
Advertiser
I am a self-proclaimed protectionist and in light of a recent post about an RV for sale that had very questionable build quality I thought it might be timely to write a post about perfection.

I will make a bold statement, no RV is perfectly built. Some may argue but the parts aren’t perfect, the riveting sometimes isn’t perfect, if you get a dent it isn’t perfect…..

One definition of a perfectionist is “a disposition to regard anything short of perfection as unacceptable”. I found that when building my first RV and being a perfectionist was driving me nuts. Yes I wanted everything to be perfect but sometimes things don’t always go as planned. Whether it is a dropped bucking bar, poor communication with your bucking partner or just a stupid mistake, things happen that detract from perfection.

The most important thing is to build a safe airplane. I hope we can all agree on that. Build quality is evidence of the builder doing their best and fixing the inevitable problems that arise during building such a project. Sometimes it requires replacing parts.

Most builders say their quality improved as they progressed from the empennage to the wings and further on. That is because they were in the Sheetmetal 101 learning phase when started their project. They were learning about how to use many new tools and work with materials they may have never touched before. Additionally they might have found better tools along the way the improved their build quality. In fact many talk about building their empennage again since it isn’t of the same “quality” as the rest of their project.

Not all rivets or bolts carry critical to flight loads. Sometimes edge distances don’t always follow the general guidelines of 2X the diameter of the fastener. So one might see an instance on an RV and pass judgment. There are parts supplied by Vans that don’t meet this edge distance guideline. That doesn’t mean that this is an unsafe condition. Engineering isn’t an exact science. We typically us a safety factor of 1.5X the actual load value because we don’t know exactly the effects of manufacturing, assembly etc.

There has been a few saying over the years that have great merit when building an RV.

With respect to dents while riveting- “Try your best-fill the rest”

“Are you building for show or building to go?”

Summing up:
1. Try you best to build a quality and safe RV.
2. Don’t be afraid to ask for help when needed.
3. No question is a stupid question on the forum.
4. Don’t get caught in the perfection trap.
 
Last edited:
Perfection

Not just RV's, not just EAB, there has never been a perfect airplane built. some are very close, the ones I like best are Paul Muhle's three Oshkosh Grand Champions and Arden Hjelles 1965 Wittman Tailwind, a two time EAA winner. Best homebuilt in 1965 and Grand Champion in 1970, the first year of the Grand Champion Award. All the above are not loaded down with excess equipment. The Muhle airplanes are very basic airplanes, all aerobatic airplanes with no fancy panels or upholstery etc. Acro Sport II, One Design, and Super Pitts.
There have been several Hatz Biplanes that are probably equal to the above but I never paid a lot of attention to them, with the exception of the Billy Dawson Hatz airplanes from San Antonio Area.
"A great fabric job can cover up a multitude of sins", the easiest route to Grand Champion caliber is wood, tubing and fabric. Composite is next and sheet metal is the most difficult.
Not that filling and profiling is a part of composite construction but the EAA Judges do not want to see filler on a metal airplane.
 
It's LOTS more than sheet metal

Wiring, systems selection and installation, cockpit and panel design (most have obvious shortcomings), there's loys more to it than rivets.
 
Wise advice for any builder who ever wants to actually fly their creation:

Perfection is the enemy of completion.

Build safely, but do NOT agonize over every rivet, scratch, boo-boo.
 
Last edited:
Nicely written Paul. It's very true about the trap and it looks like I am slowly getting into it. What I could do easy on my RV I couldn't do on a project I am now involved with.
 
Appreciation

I've also been following the "buyer beware" thread and I want to say that I really appreciate this one. I am a first time builder - in the middle of my RV-10 fuse now. 4 years and counting.

I absolutely cringe at some of the early questions I've had (see here, for example, http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=67976 ), but I did ask, knowing I was ignorant and it didn't seem right. And many here on VAF gave me solid advice and without making me feel like an idiot (which may have been justified in this case).

Since starting, I've gotten much more confident in both recognizing obvious "do-overs" and obvious "build-ons." For me there's still a gray area where I ask either my friendly neighborhood tech counselor or post it here on VAF. .... Very occasionally I know in my heart something needs to be redone but I really don't want to redo it. In those cases, I send a picture to my tech counselor (and not VAF so it's not public) and let him tell me, "you can do better than that," and then I redo it. This is just a psychological game I have to play with myself to build motivation sometimes.

So what's my point? My point is that I know I'm not going to have a show-plane in the end. But that was never my goal (though it would be nice, of course). My goal is to have a very safe traveling airplane that I build and can maintain myself. And this is a realistic goal for any first-time builder if he is willing to accept his ignorance, accept that the build WILL take longer than you hope, and LEARN through the advice and counsel of others who know better. With some patience, that gap between obvious "do-over" and obvious "build-on" is shrinking for me as it does for everyone, I'm sure, over the course of their build.

After reading the recent thread about the substandard build I have a new goal for myself: that no one will ever have any reason to write such a thread about my airplane.

Thank you, VAF contributors, for helping me build a safe airplane (if not a perfect one),
 
Last edited:
Sadly...

2. Don?t be afraid to ask for help when needed.
3. No question is a stupid question on the forum.

there are many who frequent this forum who do not agree with your statements. It seems their intent is to attempt to make a poster feel stupid or to ridicule them for asking. I know I have stopped asking questions on this forum and I believe others have as well.

It is much easier to search, read and move on.
 
Unfortunate

My experience with this forum has been outstanding. I do not recall anyone being rude, not saying it doesn't happen.

I consider VAF one of the most courteous forums I have joined. Other forums that I frequent for other interests (motorcycles, diesel trucks) can be quite brutal.

Back on topic; I appreciate the comments from Paul. At the end of a build session, I spend a considerable amount of time mentally reviewing my work; what went well and what didn't. Then it's onto 'should I redo that or is it good enough?' meaning, for me, is it a safe install.

And yes, I do ask questions on the forums, to Vans, to the local builders and EAA Tech rep.

Dan
 
Last edited:
...We typically use a safety factor of 1.5X the actual load value because we don?t know exactly the effects of manufacturing, assembly etc...

It's more because for metals, the yield is at or above limit load by design, and after the nonlinear yielding of the metal, the material fails at about 1.5 times the onset of yield. For the more commonly-used metals, anyway.

The other effects are accounted for in the structural analysis of the aircraft.

Dave
 
Mistakes

Wiring, systems selection and installation, cockpit and panel design (most have obvious shortcomings), there's loys more to it than rivets.

If you slip with the rivet gun, especially on an upper surface, you have to replace the skin or live with it. With composite, if you have an imperfection, you mix up some filler and make it perfect. On a fabric covered airplane the mistakes can mostly be covered up with fabric.
The sheet metal airplanes that are most impressive are those where there is no evidence of any filler being used over rivets and all rivets are textbook perfect.
 
Perfection

I like to say "Perfect enough!!"
The key is getting a solid idea of what does it do, how and what happens if it breaks.
 
I started out with perfection as the mind set, I suspect I have a perfect set of wing ribs from the many hours spent deburring, fluting, and tweaking. After six years of building the standard now is: Am I willing to bet my life on it? No means redo it no matter how much work it is; Yes means move on to the next task. I will say my craftsmanship has significantly improved so there are fewer instances of redos.

John Salak
RV-12 #120116
N896HS
 
Same thing at Boeing

Here is what I say in my "introduction to homebuilt kitplanes".

As a Boeing employee who sometimes deals with errors made in our factories, one thing is very clear to me: Our machinists also make mistakes. This should not be surprising: They?re only human and they have tough jobs. Sometimes they drill a hole slightly off from where it was supposed to go, or mis-install a fastener, or don?t properly connect an air duct, or scratch the structure because they used the wrong tool to remove sealant. When we develop Boeing jets, we take all this into account, and we design a lot of redundancy and fail-safety into our airplanes. Our maintenance inspections and Quality Assurance practices look for the most likely or dangerous mistakes, and our manuals have fixes for nearly every ?whoops? that has happened. It?s part of doing business when your products are so complex and made largely by hand. People make mistakes, we have ways to catch them and fix those mistakes, and we try to develop designs such that (in case a mistake is not caught) no single mistake by itself would cause a fatal problem. The same is true for EABs.

In short, the difference between an airplane built by an amateur who might make mistakes, and an airplane built by professionals who might make mistakes, is smaller than most people think.

I remember having a conversation with a friend once, when I tried to explain to him how Boeing thinks about structures durability. At one point he says ?So, assume that a perfect airplane comes out of the factory?? and I stopped him and said ?No, assume that people make mistakes, that there are flaws in the structure from day zero, and go from there. If you ever assume that everything was and will be done perfectly, you?ll be unpleasantly surprised someday?. Most Boeing engineers share this mindset. The same is true for the people who develop and sell airplane kits.
 
Crooked planes

When setting up my right wing before prepunched wings you pulled a string to make sure the spar was straight while building. That string sagged a little over time, and I failed to keep it tight, so there's a little curve in that wing that you wouldn't notice unless I told you, and you sighted down the leading edge. As far as I can tell, it makes no difference in the way the plane flys, and I think it's just as strong as my left wing.

I've been building stuff since I was big enough to hold a hammer and a hand saw, and nothing ever came out perfect. Many of the RVs I see are mighty close, but it's just not in me. Still, my plane does everything I hoped it would, and is beautiful to me like Lauren Hutton back in the day. There was just something appealing about that gap in her teeth.

John
 
Back
Top