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New "A" Nose gear - throttle and mixture cables

recapen

Well Known Member
Looking for anyone with the 'new' nose gear/engine mount that can photograph their throttle and mixture connections at the carb or vertical FI servo.

I'm converting my 6A to the new nose assy - the mount is on, the wheel is on and the engine is on - trying to figure out the throttle and mixture cables with the new setup.

Thanks
 
Converting my 6A to the "new" engine-mount/nosegear

After rebuilding my nose gear the second time (I'm home based at a pretty rough field - they're improving it finally), I bit the bullet and bought the "new" style engine mount and nosegear assembly.

Anyone out here done this yet?

I have the mount on, the nosewheel on, and the engine on the mount. Working on hooking everything else back together. The throttle and mixture control cable mountings for my AFP FI will be the first to get re-engineered.

I have already requested from the 7A/9A forums any info and pictures.

Almost like building new all over again!
 
Vans has responded with a choice of throttle cable brackets.
The tower of hockey pucks takes up some space that was previously available.
I am also re-routing some fuel hoses.

Cowl report as soon as I get the prop on...
 
Here are some from last weekend.
The match drilling has already been completed prior to this.
 

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Helping a friend finish up his conversion on a 7A. Only issues encountered were the fuel lines to the gascolator - fuel pump had to be re-routed,& tail pipe hangars had to be re-worked. Very pleased that no other items had to be moved on this planes firewall. Cowl fit & aligned perfectly, only needing the usual gear leg opening modifications, we elected to fabricate our own cover plates to close in the old leg opening and mould lower cowl louvers out of fiberglass instead of the Vans louver kit.
In hind sight, the last item that should be done is change out the lower cowl hinges for screw or camlock fasteners, I'll leave that up to the owner to do.
 
Did anyone have to move their FI throttle cable firewall passthrough location with the new style nosegear? Mine engine is not on yet, but I don’t see how I’m going to use the stock passthrough location. It’s right behind the elastomer pads!
 
Mine was already up in the oil filter cutout area for other reasons.

Those hockey pucks are still in the way though.

Please show us how you attach the engine side of the throttle/mixture cables....
 
The 6A sat nose high(er) than the rest of the fleet...
It's worse now! I'm concerned about the landing attitude!
 
Haven't gotten that far yet.

I know it will actually fit on there - I don't know if it will still align with the spinner like it did originally...that's really the question.

I expect that it could be off a little - the mount came un-drilled - so there's no way to guarantee to get it in the same relative place... I would have thought the mounts were jig assembled so this wouldn't be an issue...
 
I expect that it could be off a little - the mount came un-drilled - so there's no way to guarantee to get it in the same relative place...

Relative is -------relative.

I would have thought the mounts were jig assembled so this wouldn't be an issue...

They were almost certainly jig welded-----but the heat from welding causes slight movement as the metal expands from heat. That is why you typically need to do a bit of alignment work when installing the mount.
 
Did anyone have to move their FI throttle cable firewall passthrough location with the new style nosegear? Mine engine is not on yet, but I don’t see how I’m going to use the stock passthrough location. It’s right behind the elastomer pads!

The 7A I helped convert had the cables coming through the firewall just outboard of the elastomer mounting structure, positions about 3" left & right of center and about 5" up from firewall bottom (going on memory). Fortunately these were where the original builder had positioned the cables so we didn't have to move them at all. RV7A, IO360 horizontal FI.
 
I think there was a new design control cable bracket developed.
Call or e-mail the office and check.

Per Gary Keyser - the parts were NOT designed for the new nosegear.

I'm also working with AirFlowPerformance (the FI guys). I think I have the throttle side figured out...the mixture side is the tricky one.

Thanks for your input,
 
Per Gary Keyser - the parts were NOT designed for the new nosegear.

I'm also working with AirFlowPerformance (the FI guys). I think I have the throttle side figured out...the mixture side is the tricky one.

Thanks for your input,

I just confirmed with the engineer that designed it. There is a new design bracket to be used with the new nose gear on an RV-6,7 or 9.

The "but" is that it is only for use with a carburetor. You never said in your original post that you were using an AFP system.

The carburetor, the RSA style fuel injection servo, and the AFP fuel injection servo, are all different and all require different brackets.
 
Info on the new design bracket please - part number / photograph.

Depending on the design, it may work with the AFP.

I would like to see it though...

Thanks!
 
lets make this easy

I just confirmed with the engineer that designed it. There is a new design bracket to be used with the new nose gear on an RV-6,7 or 9.

The "but" is that it is only for use with a carburetor. You never said in your original post that you were using an AFP system.

The carburetor, the RSA style fuel injection servo, and the AFP fuel injection servo, are all different and all require different brackets.

Lets make this easy:

Scott, Vans converted the RV7A from the old nose gear to the new version of the nose gear.

I assume the old nose gear RV7A had the cables come out per the plans. So when the new nose gear was put on, were these cables changed, or left per plans?
 
Lets make this easy:

Scott, Vans converted the RV7A from the old nose gear to the new version of the nose gear.

I assume the old nose gear RV7A had the cables come out per the plans. So when the new nose gear was put on, were these cables changed, or left per plans?

The new engine mount / nose gear was prototyped on the RV-9A.
It has an O-320 with a carb
The new bracket works with the carb only. It will not work with a vertically mounted RSA or AFP fuel injection servo.
 
Can we at least see what it looks like so we can determine the design intent...and maybe build our own?
 
Scott,
I have fitted the new gear to a 6A. Very impressed with the kit execution and the gear design.
Engine is a Superior 360, vertical induction, fitted with a Precision SilverHawk injection servo. Have yet to route and install mixture and throttle cables. I recall when I ordered the Firewall Forward Kit, Van's suggested ordering the same control cable bracket as used for a carburettor install. This worked just fine. Am I right to think that the new design bracket will therefore fit a vertical induction Precision SiverHawk install as well as a carb install?
Bill Brooks
 
Am I right to think that the new design bracket will therefore fit a vertical induction Precision SiverHawk install as well as a carb install?
Bill Brooks

Potentially it would fit, but it hasn't been tested here so I am hesitant to say for certain it will.

Here is a photo and OP drawing of the redesigned bracket(s). It uses a bell crank to route the mixture cable action around the nose gear leg strut. That requires a second bracket to remote mount the anchored end of the mixture cable.
 

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Thanks - with the exception of an additional photograph of the other side of the carb this is exactly what I was looking for!
 
Thanks - with the exception of an additional photograph of the other side of the carb this is exactly what I was looking for!

No problem

I don't have one but a photo of the left side would be of little value. There is nothing on the left side at all. The carb. mixture control routes directly from the rear (visible in the photo).

Check your personal messages. I sent you one regarding a different subject.
 
Thanks - you are correct - the mixture comes in from the back...I was looking at spacing of the bellcrank on the other side. A different bellcrank with the secondary on the outside instead of the inside might do the trick.

Still working on this though!

Other topic is underway as well - thanks for that too!
 
Potentially it would fit, but it hasn't been tested here so I am hesitant to say for certain it will.

Here is a photo and OP drawing of the redesigned bracket(s). It uses a bell crank to route the mixture cable action around the nose gear leg strut. That requires a second bracket to remote mount the anchored end of the mixture cable.

Argh! Seems the throttle cable passthrough needs to move from its previous location, to route around the new elastomer nose gear (IO-360 engine). Looks like the throttle now goes through the firewall recess. Is there an updated DWG-19 showing Van's new recommended cable passthrough locations?
 
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Ryan,
no question cables can be fitted, just requires figuring out the routing(s) and brackets that will work. There are many aircraft with non Van's supplied engine/carb/fuel injection combinations, all part of the fun! I am sure solutions will be posted as they are found.
 
Is there an updated DWG-19 showing Van's new recommended cable passthrough locations?

Did you receive your engine mount/nose gear in a finish kit or as a separate retrofit purchase? (You should have received DWG 19 if it was in a finish kit)


Note: any drawing files posted in this thread are for reference only.... because of the passage of time, they may not be the latest Rev. level.
 

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Did you receive your engine mount/nose gear in a finish kit or as a separate retrofit purchase? (You should have received DWG 19 if it was in a finish kit)


Note: any drawing files posted in this thread are for reference only.... because of the passage of time, they may not be the latest Rev. level.

Thanks. I bought the engine mount separately, prior to ordering my finish kit, so didn't get a paper DWG-19. I'll call Vans next time I have an order and see if they can fold one up and include it.
 
Thanks for the Drawing

Thanks for posting the updated drawing; this helps alot.
Now, where is the best place for the fuel line penetration for an IO320 RV9A?
 
I was told when you retrofit the new nose gear, you would have to do a new cowling! Is that true or just modify your existing one?
 
Cowling mod

The nose gear kit documentation - on Van's website and as provided with kit - states that the cowl fit may be affected as a result of slight dimensional difference between the original and new engine mount. On my install, the spinner fit was displaced slightly so that the front of the cowl was no longer exactly concentric around the base of the spinner. This required the cowl to be shifted slightly at the firewall and along the sides, which required extending the cowl about 1/4 - 3/8 "along one side at the firewall and along one horizontal seam. The difference was not enough to require modification of the intake snorkel or of the intake to baffle transition.
Bill Brooks
Ottawa, Canada.
RV-6A
 
Cowling mod

The nose gear kit documentation - on Van's website and as provided with kit - states that the cowl fit may be affected as a result of slight dimensional difference between the original and new engine mount. On my install, the spinner fit was displaced so that the front of the cowl was no longer concentric around the base of the spinner. This required the cowl to be shifted slightly at the firewall and along the sides, which required extending the cowl about 1/4 " along one side at the firewall and along one horizontal seam. The difference was not enough to require modification of the intake snorkel or of the intake to baffle transition.
Bill Brooks
Ottawa, Canada.
RV-6A
 
Thanks for posting the updated drawing; this helps alot.
Now, where is the best place for the fuel line penetration for an IO320 RV9A?

Van's hasn't documented a specific penetration for an IO engine on the RV-9(A) but using the same one recommended for the RV-7(A) should work.
I don't think using the new engine mount / nose gear should have any fuel hose routing issue to the engine driven fuel pump compared to the legacy mount / nose gear. though a slightly different hose length might be required (but I don't think that would be necessary).
 
I was told when you retrofit the new nose gear, you would have to do a new cowling! Is that true or just modify your existing one?

It is not an absolute that modifications or changes would be required, but we want everyone to be full aware that it is a good possibility.

So you should expect to have to do nothing, or entirely replace/rework the cowl (or something somewhere between the two).
 
Throttle and Mixture brackets done

I have finished my installation of new throttle and mixture brackets to accommodate the new nose gear design with my AFP servo.

The AFP FI throttle setup is pretty close to the location that is shown for the carb throttle setup!

The mixture is quite different and has components inside and outside the 'hockey-puck' towers.

Both start with the AFP sourced FM-200 Throttle/Mixture bracket and cable brackets with extruded aluminum angle and standard AN/MS bolts/washers, etc.

I still have a little optimization to perform - then I'll post some pictures...
 
Update

I have my prop on and put on the cowl to see what lies ahead.

With the new mount assembly, the engine is 1/2" further forward...

Now question that a new cowl is in order.

I have contacted vans to see if that change impacts the W&B calculation or the aerodynamic safety!
 
Glad

I am really glad to hear engine is forward. With my plan for a fixed pitched prop, I need the weight forward as much as possible.
 
I have my prop on and put on the cowl to see what lies ahead.

With the new mount assembly, the engine is 1/2" further forward...

Now question that a new cowl is in order.

I have contacted vans to see if that change impacts the W&B calculation or the aerodynamic safety!

Check the cowl clearance. You may be able to have saber make you a new prop extension that is 1/2" shorter, saving you from cowl work.

Larry
 
Are you able to get the lower & upper cowl on around the existing engine baffling/front air inlet ports? Could you trim the air inlets the 1/2 forward so the baffling can work?
If so, I'd just look into doing a fiberglass modification to extend the center flange area to get your needed prop/cowl spacing. Much cheaper than a replacement cowl.
Also, did you remount the engine with the washers exactly as called for in the plans? Can't see this accounting for a 1/2" discrepancy, but maybe?

Funny, as the 7A we did came out with perfect spacing. Just was lucky???

edit- Did you by chance measure the two mounts before installation, as other threads have described two different mounts offered on some models to accommodate different engines (positioning the engine slightly farther forward from the firewall). I wonder if your plane had one of the 'other' engine mounts originally.
 
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Check the cowl clearance. You may be able to have saber make you a new prop extension that is 1/2" shorter, saving you from cowl work.

Larry

Mine is an MT Prop - there's no extension so using a shorter one won't work.
Getting a new cowl will be cheaper than a new prop hub from MT - I hust had it rebuilt!
 
Are you able to get the lower & upper cowl on around the existing engine baffling/front air inlet ports? Could you trim the air inlets the 1/2 forward so the baffling can work?
If so, I'd just look into doing a fiberglass modification to extend the center flange area to get your needed prop/cowl spacing. Much cheaper than a replacement cowl.
Also, did you remount the engine with the washers exactly as called for in the plans? Can't see this accounting for a 1/2" discrepancy, but maybe?

Funny, as the 7A we did came out with perfect spacing. Just was lucky???

edit- Did you by chance measure the two mounts before installation, as other threads have described two different mounts offered on some models to accommodate different engines (positioning the engine slightly farther forward from the firewall). I wonder if your plane had one of the 'other' engine mounts originally.

I'm using a SamJames cowl. I checked with Vans - my finish kit was pre-re-org and the 1/2 inch is from the old non-vans batch of mounts. The 1/8" lower line is due to differences in the mounting holes at the firewall - they said that is OK since the line is still straight.

I triple re-checked my installation - It is correct and was correct before.... The upper and lower fits - except the alternator rubs - even with a shorter belt.

Thanks!
 
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