What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

Fuel Boost Pump

gharding

Member
Patron
Got in my plane today to go fly and when I turned on the fuel boost pump to prime for start, I heard an unusual sound similar to a clicking noise, certainly not the normal constant whining sound. Zero fuel pressure. It appears that the boost pump has failed. It is my understanding that it is equipped with the Andair fuel pump. Does anyone have any experience with issues of the Andair pump. Aircraft is just one year old.

Thanks
 
no issues with my boost pump in 380 hrs. Does the engine start and run with just the mechanical pump? If there's no blockage, just apply 12V directly to the pump motor. If still no luck, check with Van's about a warranty :)
 
I've had two Andair fuel pumps fail (one older v3 and a brand new v7) .. they make a audible "beeping" sound when they fail to start. I'm in phase I and want a solid fuel pump, so I went with the Airflow Performance pump. Had to carefully measure the space under the dog house to get everything to fit .. but, it's been solid a solid performer since installation. It's about a pound heavier than the Andair model.

The Andair stuff is really nice, but I've been unfortunate that the pumps don't seem to work in my bird.
 
The engine starts and runs on the mechanical pump, but the sound I am hearing from the boost pump is as Bill described.
 
I have looked through all of the construction logs that the builder provided when I purchased the aircraft in May, but I am unable to find the location for the boost pump installation on my RV-14. Is it located in the center tunnel forward of the fuel selector?
 
I talked to Van’s yesterday to see what they had to say about warranties on the Andair pumps. They indicated that I needed to go directly to Andair in England. I reached out to them yesterday via email and have not received a response as of yet. Since I did not build the aircraft and have no invoices for purchase, I am not feeling confident about getting any help from Andair. Does anyone know if these pumps can be rebuilt. Hoping to avoid a $1000 expense for a replacement of a one year old part. Van’s also said that the other option is go with Airflow Performance pumps, but they utilize a return line and would require new plumbing. The Andair is a in/out only arrangement.
 
call them

... I reached out to them yesterday via email and have not received a response as of yet. Since I did not build the aircraft and have no invoices for purchase, I am not feeling confident about getting any help from Andair. ...
I'd give them a call - they speak English, although with a bit of an English accent. :D From the US: 011-44-23-9247-3945

I sent my pump in for a checkup to get any latest updates a couple of years ago and they were very responsive. I was not flying so didn't press them for a quick upgrade. No idea if they still do this, or will charge you, or anything like that.

You might consider asking another builder in your area to let you borrow their pump while yours gets fixed - it might take a couple of weeks.

http://www.rv8.ch/andair-fuel-pump-upgrade/
 
Van’s also said that the other option is go with Airflow Performance pumps, but they utilize a return line and would require new plumbing. The Andair is a in/out only arrangement.

The newer AFP pumps, including the one I installed, don't have a need for return line. Same in/out arrangement as Andair.
 
Below is the response from Andair..
“ Hello,
The warranty is 1 year but we will always do our best to offer support to customers whenever possible and after any period of time.
Kind regards,
Jenny”
It appears that shipping international will be in the $100 range each way. Does anyone have any suggestions as to which service to use and which is most reliable, timely, etc.

Thanks
 
Below is the response from Andair..
“ Hello,
The warranty is 1 year but we will always do our best to offer support to customers whenever possible and after any period of time.
Kind regards,
Jenny”
It appears that shipping international will be in the $100 range each way. Does anyone have any suggestions as to which service to use and which is most reliable, timely, etc.

Thanks

I would opt to just replace it with an AFP or SDS pump before I would spend $200 in shipping plus any repair cost. I had an Andair pump in my RV-10 and liked it alot, but with recent reports of Andair pump failures, I am not using one in my -9A.
 
David,
I did talk to Kyle at AirFlow Performance. Great folks. They do have an In/Out pump option that will replace the Andair for half the price, but it is about 5 inches longer and would require plumbing modifications. I sure am considering that option. The quick fix is to fork out $1000 to Aircraft Spruce and have it in a day. If anyone has a better option, I am all ears.

Thanks
 
Anyone have pictures of an AFP pump/filter installation in an RV-14? I would think the modifications to the fuel lines would be pretty easy to do, especially if you substitute flex lines for the rigid tubing. I think mounting between all the stuff in the tunnel would be a trick.
 
James----not sure if anyone has installed a AFP pump in a 14, but certainly can be done. We do SDS and EFii packages.
Obviously the mounts would have to be modified. Possibly something similar to the RV7 with the filter along side the pump.
Can also mount the filter inline, which lengthens the entire package, so it shortens the discharge hose or tube.

Tom
 
If anyone has a rebuilt Andair PX375-TC for sale, please let me know.

Thanks

If you're interested in a not-yet-rebuilt v7 Andair, lemme know. I'll comp you the shipping back to he factory. Filter included. Still under the 1yr warranty period (built Feb 2020)
 
Last edited:
Another pump failure

Just had my Andair pump fail today trying to start for a long-planned trip with another aircraft. It is the model that comes with the -14 kit. Same symptom as others — strange sound and no pressure or flow.

TTSN 650 hours and only boost pump failure I have ever had. Looking at replacement options as overseas repair is neither practical nor cost effective.
 
I did finally decide to just replace with a new Andair from Aircraft Spruce. My plan is to ship my original back to England and let them repair, so that I have a spare. It does seem that they may be starting to experience quality control issues though and their warranty is just one year. Mine made it 13 months.
 
I am getting ready to order a RV-14A kit. Thinking it might be better to omit the Andair boost pump and go with the AFP boost pump. Half the price, and should you need a replacement or have a problem, as you are dealing with someone in the U.S.

I am sure that the boys at Aircraft Specialty/TS Flightlines could help in regards to fuel line plumbing differences.
 
good logic

...Half the price, and should you need a replacement or have a problem, as you are dealing with someone in the U.S. ...
Can't argue with that logic. I used the same when I bought the Andair, since I'm in Europe. Not gonna lie - these failures don't give me warm fuzzies.
 
Failed pump or lost prime?

I have had a problem with my -14 where I turn on the fuel pump and it runs but I get no flow/pressure and the pump doesn’t sound quite right. It has happened 3 times in 140 hours, usually after the airplane has sat for a period of time (weeks). I have to crack the fuel line going into the spider to get the pump to “re-prime“ and when it does the sound changes back to “normal.”

I am assuming the pump is losing its prime. When parked I leave the fuel selector in the Left or Right position. The fuel system (pumps, lines and valves) are stock and I have an FM-150 fuel Injection system.

Anyone else experiencing this?
 
Andair fuel pump failed after 20 minutes total time

I wasn't aware of the issues of failing Andair fuel pumps until it happened to me after maybe 20 minutes or so of total run time. I did the first two engine starts, which probably accounted for 8-10 seconds of boost pump run time, and then while using fuel boost pump to drain fuel tank after the calibration of the G3X fuel gauge, the Andair PX-375TC failed, after approximately 20 minutes or so of total run time. I had already scheduled a DAR for my airworthiness inspection when the pump failure occurred. I emailed Andair but did not get a reply. After three days I called Vans. They had one in stock and I had them overnight it to me. Got new boost pump installed in time for airworthiness inspection. Eight days after I had emailed Andair I finally got a reply back. I am not qualified to make a judgement on the quality of Andair products, but I am qualified to know that Andair's customer service is absolutely pathetic. Vans as usual came thru with the best support in the aviation industry. I will be switching to an Airflow performance pump when I do the first thorough inspection of my RV-14 when I get 100 hours on it.
 
I have had a problem with my -14 where I turn on the fuel pump and it runs but I get no flow/pressure and the pump doesn’t sound quite right.

This is the same problem I reported on a different thread several weeks ago before my pump failed yesterday. It began occurring after landing for fuel with a hot engine and had never occurred before. I had to wait about 20 minutes prior to getting pressure.

It then started working normally for awhile until yesterday. I fly 150 hours a year so my plane is frequently used and I need more reliability than this. My guess is that you can anticipate a future problem given what happened to me. I plan on calling both Vans and AFP Monday.
 
I have had a problem with my -14 where I turn on the fuel pump and it runs but I get no flow/pressure and the pump doesn’t sound quite right. It has happened 3 times in 140 hours, usually after the airplane has sat for a period of time (weeks). I have to crack the fuel line going into the spider to get the pump to “re-prime“ and when it does the sound changes back to “normal.”

I am assuming the pump is losing its prime. When parked I leave the fuel selector in the Left or Right position. The fuel system (pumps, lines and valves) are stock and I have an FM-150 fuel Injection system.

Anyone else experiencing this?

Hi Jeff, I just had this happen to me for the first time last week at about the 260 hr mark. Weak noise from pump with no fuel flow or pressure indicated. Airplane had sat for a week. I started the engine and then the boost pump seemed to work fine. I noticed increased fuel flow and pressure when the pump was turned on. Upon shut down, the pump acted normal.
 
Same here

I've had the same issue a handful of times. Plane sits a few days, go to prime and get no pressure or flow and a definite different sound. You can tell it's just not primed. If it gets primed, it works fine. I've figured out a way to prime it and that is just to crank the engine anyway, and let the mechanical pump do its work. Once it starts flowing, it operates fine after that. It's maybe happened 6 times over a year.

After having these issues, I've inspected and re-torqued every fuel line connection in the system, multiple times, and even replaced a couple of fittings. There is no evidence of leakage anywhere. I'm not exactly sure why or how it loses prime. I've also opened up the filter and replaced that as well.
It's got to be getting air in somewhere, or it wouldn't lose its prime, but I haven't found any place I can identify yet. I guess if I was suspicious of something, it could be the fuel filter o-ring, but I've replaced that as well.
It hasn't happened to me now since probably winter or early spring, so just waiting to see if it happens again.
 
Update

This weekend I looked further into the pump problem in my -14A. The pump motor runs smoothly and quietly but as previously stated, sounds very different from the past and does not generate fuel pressure or flow as it did for the first several years and several hundred hours.

From the sound, it seems to me that it is not driving the impeller or whatever mechanism is used to pump fuel.

I tried both tanks, with mixture and throttle both full aft and full forward with no change -- no pressure or flow. Tapping on the motor assembly with a small hammer while it was running did not result in any change in sound or any indication of flow or pressure.

I removed the fuel inlet screen on the aft side of the pump and it was clean. There is no obstruction to inlet flow into the pump.

I have not yet removed it for bench testing but that is next. I have been told (but not by Andair) that there is some sort of version number on the pump and that some of the earlier years may have problems that do not exist in later pumps. I have not yet seen what version it is but will when the pump is out of the airplane. FWIW, I started the full build kit in April 2014 and made the first flight in Sept 2016 so that defines the time frame when the pump likely was built.

This is a real mystery to me. More later when I learn more...
 
I also have some issues now... During calibration of my fueltanks the pump sounded good but since the engine is running the pump started to make really strange sounds (like squeeking). As I am not a fan of performing a first flight with a possible issue in the fuel system I`ve removed the pump and sent it to Andair on friday for a modification to the latest version and bench testing.

As I am having my final inspection this Thursday I will borrow a pump from a RV-14 builder close to me (we have to run the engine during the final inspection).

Andair said the turnaround time for a modification is about one week.. Thus I hope to get mine back quite soon to make my first flight with a tested pump which is the newest (and hopefully better) version.

Mine was a Version #3 and was installed about 4 years ago. I do not know if I should have left the caps on to keep the preservative oil in it. Maybe corrosion damaged mine..
 
Last edited:
preservation oil

I'm told the preservation oil is ACF-50 but not sure - I know that after mine sat for a while, I had some kind of very light grease in there. Something to check as well. The engine ran fine with this, but I cleaned it out anyway.

IMG_1696.jpg
 
Update 2 -- the kiss of death

The pump motor runs smoothly and quietly but as previously stated, sounds very different from the past and does not generate fuel pressure or flow as it did for the first several years and several hundred hours.

From the sound, it seems to me that it is not driving the impeller or whatever mechanism is used to pump fuel.

It was a lucky guess but that quote from my last post turned out to be correct. I disassembled the pump today and found out what the problem was. I will try to include some photos tomorrow if I can figure out how to do that but the bottom line remains the same. The motor ran just fine but a drive pin in the motor shaft that engages the pump gears was sheared. So instead of the motor driving the gears and pumping fuel, its drive shaft just spun quietly and drove nothing.

Why? I don't know but the disturbing thing is that nothing in the pump assembly was frozen or locked up as one would think if the drive pin had sheared. Everything was clean and shiny and showed no evidence of corrosion. The plane is hangared in our very dry climate and has flown 650 hours in just shy of 4 years. Was the pin undersized? Bad material? Bad luck? I have no clue but did learn that my pump was a version 2 that I bought new sometime in 2014 or 2015 with the kit. Version 7 of the pump is apparently current and hopefully one of the interim improvements addressed that drive pin.

How this relates to the intermittent symptoms I had prior to failure is something I have yet to figure out. But there is no question this pump is dead and definitely not going back in the airplane.
 
Fill me in more on the pump version information if you have any. On the top of my pump it says:

Part no: PX375-TC#2
SerialNo: 31849

So is this saying that I'm a revision 2 pump and someone earlier said they're currently on revision 7? If this is the case, I've got something to plan for ahead because I'd want to send mine in for rework to current also. Having a fuel pump that's not up to current is not something I'd want to leave.

I'm real curious as to what the various subsequent revisions changed.
 
Fill me in more on the pump version information if you have any. On the top of my pump it says:

Part no: PX375-TC#2
SerialNo: 31849

So is this saying that I'm a revision 2 pump and someone earlier said they're currently on revision 7? If this is the case, I've got something to plan for ahead because I'd want to send mine in for rework to current also. Having a fuel pump that's not up to current is not something I'd want to leave.

I'm real curious as to what the various subsequent revisions changed.

An excellent question, Tim. Yes, you have version 2 as I do and I had no idea they were up to version 7, which I was told by someone with personal knowledge of it. And I haven't the foggiest what occurred in any of those versions.

This is not like a servo shear pin, which can break and fairly easily be replaced. Servo loss does not affect flight safety and replacing it does not require major disassembly of the servo as is the case with the Andair pump. Even if I had the pin replaced with something here locally, I would have no idea what material to use and would not want to try to reassemble the pump and fly with it. This pump is right in the middle of the fuel system and all engine fuel has to pass through it.

Why can't vendors simply announce new versions of their products and advise owners of what the improved version contains? In this case there are evidently 5 changes to the pump that neither you, I nor anyone else knows have been made. If I sound unhappy about this, it's because I am.
 
Does Vans maybe know what the changes are? They must be a really good customer if they sell this pump with their kits... Maybe worth asking..

According to Fedex my pump just arrived an hour ago at their company.... I hope get mine back as soon as possible as I really want to do my first flight soon...
 
For reference, here's my pump info (version 7) dated 20/07/18.
 

Attachments

  • IMG-9027.jpg
    IMG-9027.jpg
    250 KB · Views: 215
Update 3 -- CAUTION, the rest of the story!

... the disturbing thing is that nothing in the pump assembly was frozen or locked up as one would think if the drive pin had sheared. Everything was clean and shiny and showed no evidence of corrosion.

I mentioned in my prior post I thought it strange the drive pin seems to have sheared even though there was no evidence of binding in the pump itself. One would think that a sheared pin would be an indication of some sort of lock-up or excess friction in the driven system.

For that reason, I took some time with close up magnifiers on to look at the evidence in more detail and am glad I did. There is a clear indication that the source of the failure in my version 2 pump after 650 hours was material related wear and not a result of overload. This is a design and manufacturing issue.


IMG_1702-L.jpg


This is looking into the pump gear assembly. The circular item in the center is the motor shaft that has a drive pin through it. This pin is supposed to engage with the two U-shaped cutouts seen in the inner gear. A close look reveals that pin is not visible in the cutouts because it has been worn down to the outside diameter of the motor shaft.

IMG_1703-L.jpg


Another view of both the inner and outer gears along with the motor shaft and drive pin after removal from the pump. Note the two U-shaped cutouts in the inner (driven) gear and the worn down pin that is supposed to protrude into them.

IMG_1712-L.jpg


This is the close up view of the inner gear that I did not see previously. Note the gouged out section of the gear adjacent to the U shaped cutout on the far side. The near side U is similar. It is obvious from this photo and the one of the worn drive pin that over time the pin and gear it drives have not had a happy existence. The pin wore the gear and the gear wore the pin, ultimately resulting in failure of the motor to drive the pump because there was no remaining engagement between pin and gear. Unless this issue has been addressed in one of the updated pump versions, the same failure mechanism will likely occur in every pump. Again, this is a version 2 pump, purchased new with the kit in 2014 or 2015. I understand version 7 is current.

FWIW, I have opted not to either have this pump repaired or buy a new Andair pump. Instead, I ordered one from Airflow Performance and will install that instead.
 
Bill, something to think about and maybe inspect: that pin and rotor material which was worn away was carried downstream and likely was small enough to pass through the inlet screen on the throttle body, as well as spider and nozzles. However, I'd pull the inlet screen and inspect by washing out over a coffee filter to catch the tiny stuff.

Heinrich
 
Bill,

I think a lot of -14 owners will be following your install of the AFP pump assembly with great interest. I suspect some custom lines from Tom/Steve at AS/TSFL will be required and perhaps in the future they can offer a drop in kit. Finding space for the pump assembly may be challenging given the size and the constraints in the tunnel area, but where there is a will there is away...we are pulling for you! You seem to be the man for the job!

Keep us updated please.

This is being worked on by AS/TS now, the main issue is retrofitting the pump to existing mounting as an inline Airflow Performance filter/pump assembly is like 17" long vs 9 or so for the Andair. The tunnel does have room to move the whole assembly forward but there are no existing mounts there so a mounting solution is in order. Steve and Tom will I'm sure have lines available once a workable solution is had and tested.
 
I'll be very interested to see what you come up with for mounting. Clearly this is something that can't just be left as-is, with my version 2 pump. I'll be trying to be careful to use the pump sparingly for the time being until I can get a plan B in order.
 
you want answers, we've got your answers right here!

This thread is what VAF is all about. Someone has a situation, posts questions looking for advice, digs into the problem, discovers the root cause of the issue, posts the findings and resolution to the situation. Provides the rest of us with information and knowledge so, in the event we ever encounter the same situation, we don't have to re-invent the wheel to solve it!

BTW, I have an Airflow Performance pump assembly and filter that I would be willing to sell. It has never had fuel through it but was installed at one point prior to engine mounting. If anyone is interested, PM me and I can get you the model number and such.
 
Mine won’t start...

It appears some are able to get their engines to start. When my Andair pump loses prime and won’t pump fuel the engine will not start. I have a Version #3.
 
I am getting ready to order a RV-14A kit. Thinking it might be better to omit the Andair boost pump and go with the AFP boost pump. Half the price, and should you need a replacement or have a problem, as you are dealing with someone in the U.S.

I am sure that the boys at Aircraft Specialty/TS Flightlines could help in regards to fuel line plumbing differences.

Jim and All,

Tom and I have been discussing this issue, and we are currently working on tests on our center tunnel mockup as well as with a beta tester who is swapping for the AFP pump in his flying -14.

We plan on offering an installation package for those builders that choose to utilize the AFP pump in their -14. We don't have a set time frame on this, but we are actively working on it.

Everything from the valve aft will remain the same. The only issues are the pump mounting, the lengths of the hoses/tubes, and adapting this install for those who want to utilize our wing root filter kit.

Happy building!
Steve
 
Bill, something to think about and maybe inspect: that pin and rotor material which was worn away was carried downstream and likely was small enough to pass through the inlet screen on the throttle body, as well as spider and nozzles. However, I'd pull the inlet screen and inspect by washing out over a coffee filter to catch the tiny stuff.

Heinrich

Thanks for the heads up, Heinrich -- I intend to do that in the process of installing the AFP pump. The nature of the failure mode appears to be gradual erosion of both the pin and gear over a long period of time. This produced a powdery type of wear materials that I suspect were burned up in the combustion process. I would be very surprised if I found anything at all in any component but I will check regardless. I have had one unanticipated surprise already with the pump failure and do not want to encounter another.
 
Bill,

I think a lot of -14 owners will be following your install of the AFP pump assembly with great interest. I suspect some custom lines from Tom/Steve at AS/TSFL will be required and perhaps in the future they can offer a drop in kit. Finding space for the pump assembly may be challenging given the size and the constraints in the tunnel area, but where there is a will there is away...we are pulling for you! You seem to be the man for the job!

Keep us updated please.

Tom:

To give you and others a bit more feedback on that very issue, I've already contacted both AFP and AS/TSFL. I am certain a drop in, elegantly designed solution will be forthcoming from them. However, since I am AOG right now, I will be installing a new system independently to get back in the air and it will involve the AFP filter and pump connected in line. The ultimate solution available en masse to others through these companies will likely be with pump and filter parallel for a shorter package. My center console wire bundles run down each side of the tunnel and leave reasonable access to do the job in line. I have a .062 plate that I will attach to the same four mounting nutplates the Andair fit into. The pump and filter will attach to that with Adel clamps. I intend to use rigid line from fuel selector to filter and then flex hose from pump outlet to the firewall AN fitting. It's all in my head right now since I just ordered the pump and filter but will make it work. With any luck I may be able to use the exact same fuel selector to filter line I have in there right now for the Andair pump. Will post something more with photos when I get going.
 
AFP pump in tunnel and filters in the wing roots

Jim and All,

Tom and I have been discussing this issue, and we are currently working on tests on our center tunnel mockup as well as with a beta tester who is swapping for the AFP pump in his flying -14.

We plan on offering an installation package for those builders that choose to utilize the AFP pump in their -14. We don't have a set time frame on this, but we are actively working on it.

Everything from the valve aft will remain the same. The only issues are the pump mounting, the lengths of the hoses/tubes, and adapting this install for those who want to utilize our wing root filter kit.

Happy building!
Steve


The AFP pump in the tunnel and the wing root filter kit sounds like a great setup. Eliminating the single filter in the tunnel should provide more room for the AFP pump.

Thanks,
Steve!!!
 
Yea baby I'm in! I already have your wing root system in place. As soon as my andair pump heads south I'll be calling you! Thanks Tom!
 
EFII Boost Pump

Has anyone considered the EFII Boost Pump as an alternative to the Andair?

https://www.flyefii.com/products/boost-pump/

It appears to be slightly smaller and lighter than the AFP pump so it might be easier to fit into the tunnel. It comes with a filter but maybe EFII would sell it without the filter if you already have one and just need a new pump assembly?

It's a shame there seems to be a lot of people having issues with the Andair pump, it is significantly smaller and lighter than any other suitable boost pump I can find.
 
Mark--
We started with the AFP pump and have the package in beta test now. LOL---Steve, myself, and the beta tester---with the FLYING plane---spend a bunch of time on a conference call Sunday to hammer out details of 5 different versions. We settled on 1 that made sense that not only would be good for the flying planes to retrofit, but for new builds as well.

What was great about that was little things--in this case wiring bundles in his plane, well you dont see them in plans and you dont really think about them when you have a tunnel mockup sitting on the bench. Another reason why we use beta testers. Something else about this--we ARE using a filter at the AFP pump inlet--somewhat duplicating what was already there for the retrofit guys. The way we have the pump mounted is simple, and can be used with or without the pump filter --if using our wing root filter option. Obviously a minor change in plumbing---but gives a few options.

There was several ways of doing this, and we hammered them out and came up with the best (we thought) compromise of all 5 solutions. We came up with a retrofit mounting plate that sits on the existing pump mounts.

Should have all of this shortly.

Tom
 
Just some feedback to my andair pump. As I had strange noises I‘ve sent mine to Andair for a update to Version 7. They told me that the turnaround time should be one week. I‘ve unmounted mine on friday and sent it via fedex. It arrived on tuesday and exactly one week later (today) the overhauled pump arrived. So at least this worked flawlessly! I will now use this pump for my upcoming first flight.
Yves
 
To provide an update. The mounting plate for the AFP installation has been designed in cad and machined. We are waiting for some parts to arrive later this week to finalize that portion of the installation. We have also done the computation on the new tube assembly and ran the first cnc bent pre production version of that today.

We hope to have an installation component test kit to ship to a beta tester next week for fit verification and tweaking.

We really enjoy this kind of R and D and appreciate the input and feedback from the community that drives these projects. We recognize that many, if not most, builders will continue to utilize the standard Andair pump/filter package. We are 100% committed to continue supporting the plumbing for that setup. This AFP project will provide another set of options for builders who choose to go this direction.

Happy building,
Steve
 
Back
Top