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New Rotax Engine - 912iS

Sounds like they have fixed my major objection to the 912! Good for Rotax. Now if they can get it to run on regular grade ethanol infused fuel, or even 100LL without the ill effects it would be nicer yet..
 
I, too, would rather have the FI as opposed to doing the carbs even though I am used to balancing them. But, what will this be worth to us? Up to about $6K I would be in but after that?? I'm betting this engine will be close to $10K more.
 
External alternator needed

From the avweb write-up, it looks like the external alternator is needed to keep up with the FI power demands. As I recall, the standard external alternator is a serious wart on the front of the engine, so incorporating it into an RV-12 would require a bit of serious massaging.
 
It appears that the new 430 watt alternator will be located on the back of the engine where it is presently located, so no bump up front.
 
ROTAX - Pipistrel as 912 IS release customer

From the Rotax list in Matronics: http://www.matronics.com/listbrowse/rotaxengines-list/0000.html

"...Today is a significant milestone for both Pipistrel and ROTAX with the
release of the 912 IS engine, ROTAX have chosen Pipistrel as the 912 IS
release customer and the engine has been fitted and tested on the
award-winning Pipistrel Virus SW aircraft. Those that have flown the
aircraft report increased smoothness, faster throttle response, lower idle
and most importantly for the environment less fuel consumption for this
exciting new engine..."

http://www.pipistrel.si/news/rotax_new_engine

Godo
 
We were running EFI on 912s several years ago and sold a few kits. More power, slightly lower fuel consumption and slightly lower vibration levels due to more even mixture distribution. The EGT spread closed up considerably with EFI at certain rpms as it was never too even with the carbs.

Rotax was rumored to be working on EFI about 5 years ago so no surprise it is being released now. $6K though- yikes!
 
That is one good looking engine. Meets most of my wants/requirements. Too bad they screwed around so long. Welcome to the 21st century, Rotax.
 
New Engine Economics

Rotax is claiming 10% better fuel economy with the EFI. Let's see...
2000 hrs TBO x 4 gph x $4/gal mogas = $32,000. 10% gas savings = $3,200. Might break even if inflation and gas prices go wayy up.
 
Sounds like UL-Power has a competitor now albeit at a higher cost and with the Rotax name. I still wish Van's would offer an option for UL-Power.
 
I still have to order my engine, so if the 912iS was available at the right price I'd be seriously interested. The question is whether Vans will see a strong enough business case to offer it as an alternative to the 912ULS.

I'm guessing that the price will be up around the cost of the 914ULS, and Vans would need to make some design changes, test it, write up a new set of instructions and make some minor alterations to the POH. Apart from anything else, it's about 13lbs heavier than the 912ULS. That all takes time and development money, and increases their inventory and management costs, therefore I can't see this engine being offered as an option anytime soon.

My guess would be at least 2-3 years from now, if they ever decide do it. I don't think I can wait that long, even if the cost difference was acceptable. Is anyone out there more optimistic?
 
912iS

This is a great advancement on Rotax behalf hope we can see this in the RV 12 real soon too!
 
rotax

I put a new carb'ed rotax 912 on my rans s-7 in 1997, flew the heck out of it. Really liked the engine. I paid $7000 for it brand new, delivered to my front door. When I decided to build another a/c I looked at the rotax again, my heart fell when I saw the price for a new one. I investigated and was told it was because of the monetary exchange etc., dah, kah, dah dah. My opinion is they are charging more because there is a good market for it. I don't think they should charge that much. Good engine, very overpriced for me. Wish they would wake up, some fine day someone will come out with another good engine at a reasonable price.

bird
 
rgmwa said:
I still have to order my engine, so if the 912iS was available at the right price I'd be seriously interested. The question is whether Vans will see a strong enough business case to offer it as an alternative to the 912ULS.

I'm guessing that the price will be up around the cost of the 914ULS, and Vans would need to make some design changes, test it, write up a new set of instructions and make some minor alterations to the POH. Apart from anything else, it's about 13lbs heavier than the 912ULS. That all takes time and development money, and increases their inventory and management costs, therefore I can't see this engine being offered as an option anytime soon.

My guess would be at least 2-3 years from now, if they ever decide do it. I don't think I can wait that long, even if the cost difference was acceptable. Is anyone out there more optimistic?
Click to expand...

Hi Rob/All, I agree with you Rob. The iS engine will be a long time coming for RV12. Some fairly large re-design required. The added cost...which is already a problem with the Rotax....and the biggest problem...... another 6 kilograms of weight on the nose!!! However I feel the iS will be a better version of an already good engine.
 
bird said:
I put a new carb'ed rotax 912 on my rans s-7 in 1997, flew the heck out of it. Really liked the engine. I paid $7000 for it brand new, delivered to my front door. When I decided to build another a/c I looked at the rotax again, my heart fell when I saw the price for a new one. I investigated and was told it was because of the monetary exchange etc., dah, kah, dah dah. My opinion is they are charging more because there is a good market for it. I don't think they should charge that much. Good engine, very overpriced for me. Wish they would wake up, some fine day someone will come out with another good engine at a reasonable price.

bird
Click to expand...

In 1997 the Euro -v- USD was around $.80. Today, it is $1.32. Had the exchange rate been at today's rate in 1997 you would have paid $11,500. Today's price accounts for inflation, R&D recoup, expanded market coverage, and liberal liability laws.
 
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Our 912 S will be discontinued!

It's just a matter of time. There is no point for Rotax to continue producing the 912 S when the 912iS is in full gear. The only issue they face is the ramp-up of the 912iS production and more importantly not to upset vendors/customers like VANs whose production might get disrupted by the long delays needed to adapt to and certify the new model (did you say Skyview?).
 
The Mothership just posted this on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/notes/vans-aircraft-inc/rotax-912is/381492068527838

Yeah, we saw it too - Rotax has released a new fuel-injected version of their 912 engine.

We?d been aware of this project for some time, and the concept is exciting; but there are several reasons that, in its present form, the engine is not suitable for the RV-12.

Weight: The Rotax press release says the f.i. version weighs 6 kilograms more than the carbureted version. For the metrically-challenged, that?s 13.2 lbs - a significant increase and difficult to absorb, given the RV-12?s forward-cabin configuration and legally limited gross weight.

Size: The photos accompanying the Rotax press release make it quite clear that the engine will not fit in the RV-12 cowl. Re-designing the cowl and making new molds would be an expensive and time-consuming project, increasing the cost of the kits.

Cost: We haven?t seen final numbers, but the new engine is likely to be priced significantly more than the one we use.

We will consider the pros and cons of the new engine, but for now and the realistic future, we have no plans to offer it, either as a replacement for the existing engine or as an option.

For further information visit www.rotax-owner.com
Click to expand...
 
review @ EAA site

From EAA reporter>
http://www.eaa.org/news/2012/2012-03-08_rotax.asp

"...Somewhat surprising to the international audience, performance remains unchanged. According to the data sheet, the 912iS still develops 100 hp at 5800 RPM. Unexpectedly, the maximum torque dropped from 94 foot pounds at 5100 RPM to 89 foot pounds at 5800 RPM. The overall engine dimensions remained largely the same, so manufacturers will not have problems with the installation in existing engine compartments.

BRP made no specific references to the price of the 912iS. On our pricing inquiry we got an answer that the new engine will be from 14 percent to 17 percent more expensive than the carbureted 912S. Unofficial estimates from some aircraft manufacturers said that the 912iS would add about $4,000..."

Godo
 
Flight Design is offering this engine in their CTLSi but pricing still seems to be a secret. I have heard from an unofficial source that they want an extra $13K for this option. I don't know if that premium is just for a different engine or if there are some extra goodies in the package.

But, if that turns out to be in the ballpark for extra cost of this engine, I'm gonna be balancing carbs for a long time.
 
UK LAA News Item

The following posted on the UK's Light Aircraft Association (LAA) website:

BRP-Powertrain GMBH (universally known by its product name Rotax) has launched a new model in the Rotax 912 range of lightweight four-stroke power-plants. The 912iS features fuel injection and a digital engine control unit (ECU) and is claimed to pocess 38% to 70% better fuel efficiency than comparable competitive engines in the light sport, ultra-light aircraft and the general aviation industry.
A three-year development period included more than 1,000 hours on the test bench and 700 test hours in the air, BRP revealed at an international launch for the engine at its Gunskirchen, Austria facility on March 8. The launch customer will be Slovenian LSA manufacturer Pipistrel Aircraft, and mass production of the engine will start in May 2012.
Power output for the new engine remains 100hp at 5800rpm but dry weight increases by 9lbs (15 lbs if you also add the necessary twin electric fuel pumps and associated components) to take the engine to 140lbs; it is therefore probably too heavy for mant of the current crop of 450kg microlights. The overall engine dimensions remain largely the same, as does the TBO of 2000 hours. Anticipated pricing is that the new engine will be 14% - 17% more expensive than the carburetted 912S. LAA Engineering?s Francis Donaldson and Ken Craigie attended the launch and were duly impressed with the engine, which will no doubt be finding its way into LAA aircraft before too long.
The April issue of Light Aviation will include a full report on the new engine.

If base engine price is $18K (say) then extra appears to be between $2500-3000.
 
According to Sun 'N Fun announcements this engine will add $4K - $5K over a 912S and about 1gph less in cruise. That's higher than I would like to spend but within range if I have a weak moment. But, unless Van's changes their position, which seems unlikely, I won't have to make that choice.
 
new Rotax

A 38-70% increase in fuel efficiency certainly got my attention - and immediate skepticism. Gee, that might make the RV-12 a 1000 mile airplane.

But wait! Did they say a 1 gph reduction in cruise fuel burn? That works out to about 16-20% improvement in fuel efficiency.

Where's my 38-70% improvement??? I want my free lunch.......

Bob Bogash
N737G
 
912iS

Very Very true I think it would be very remiss if Van's did'nt start enginering the RV 12 to accept the 912iS engine ........lets face it they have the expertiese there .....my $ worth..!
 
NCGAPilot said:
Let's face it, the carburetor engines are being phased out in favor of EFI engines, and it would be prudent on Vans part to offer a 912iS package for the RV-12.
Click to expand...

Really?
I just attended Rotax Maintenance renewal training and even though Eric Tucker (top guy with Kodiac; U.S. distributor) did not actually admit the existence of the iS engine (it was a week before the big announcement). he said if they did introduce a new version of the engine, they would still continue to produce the carb. version because some of their large volume customers (I think Van's would qualify as one, with more than 150 engines sold in just 2 years) may not be interested in the higher price point.
 
splitty said:
Very Very true I think it would be very remiss if Van's did'nt start enginering the RV 12 to accept the 912iS engine ........lets face it they have the expertiese there .....my $ worth..!
Click to expand...

Agree, I was just wondering why they aren't offering it at this time, or even announce that they were going to look at the option of offering a 912iS package.

rvbuilder2002 said:
Really?
I just attended Rotax Maintenance renewal training and even though Eric Tucker (top guy with Kodiac; U.S. distributor) did not actually admit the existence of the iS engine (it was a week before the big announcement). he said if they did introduce a new version of the engine, they would still continue to produce the carb. version because some of their large volume customers (I think Van's would qualify as one, with more than 150 engines sold in just 2 years) may not be interested in the higher price point.
Click to expand...

I said "phased out", of course they're going to continue the production of the carb 912, but sooner or later it will ceased production in favor of the 912iS. Simply because either the price will come down, or people will be ordering more of the iS than the carb engine.
 
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