What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

Ditching the 496

So instead of paying for anything else why not just buy an iPad or Samsung ( cheaper than IFly and no subscriptions ) and leave it installed in the plane like you?re planning on doing with the IFly?
Then you have everything as you do now and won?t forget your tablet plus no new wiring! You both have to learn to use the new IFly so just learn to use the iPad or he learns to use the Samsung.

I have the Dynon D-180 with autopilot and a 496. I plan to install the Echo ADSB also so I?ll pretty much have your same setup. I?m going to install an iPad in the panel (currently using it or my 6s+ on a ram mount) and I?m done. No wiring.

I think that would be the simplest and cheapest solution and no additional wiring or future subscription costs plus it does exactly what you want plus redundancy with the 496 and tablet displays.


On another note I?m also considering in the near future replacing the 496 with a Garmin 175 to be able to fly it IFR and I still won?t have any issues with ADSB because it?s still going to the iPad.
Well... first off, there would be wiring to supply power to whatever tablet we decided to mount, plus needing to actually mount the tablet. And in the end, it STILL won?t supply guidance to the autopilot, so flight plans would need to be entered twice... meaning we couldn?t just mount the tablet over the top of the 496. We both use our tablets for other things in addition to flying. This way we have a dedicated GPS device that will drive the autopilot and other D180 functions and is controlled by the avionics switch like everything else. Maps and other data will always be up to date, and neither of us has to give up our tablet for exclusive use in the plane. My co-owner can drop his FF subscription if he wants. We CAN pay for the multi-platform upgrade, but we boxing have to... since we can just punch everything into the 740 pretty easily. It?s not like we fly compels routes or anything.
 
Well... first off, there would be wiring to supply power to whatever tablet we decided to mount, plus needing to actually mount the tablet. And in the end, it STILL won?t supply guidance to the autopilot, so flight plans would need to be entered twice... meaning we couldn?t just mount the tablet over the top of the 496. We both use our tablets for other things in addition to flying. This way we have a dedicated GPS device that will drive the autopilot and other D180 functions and is controlled by the avionics switch like everything else. Maps and other data will always be up to date, and neither of us has to give up our tablet for exclusive use in the plane. My co-owner can drop his FF subscription if he wants. We CAN pay for the multi-platform upgrade, but we boxing have to... since we can just punch everything into the 740 pretty easily. It?s not like we fly compels routes or anything.

I think you disagreed with me first then gave me reasons why my idea works then went back again :D

-You need to mount the IFly just like the tablet.

-Wiring the tablet is only 2 wires for power. Still need more wires for the IFly.

-Still need to enter flightplan twice if you?re using IFly because it won?t transfer to the tablet.

-Your 496 is already wired and gives guidance to the autopilot. You have to buy a new IFly so you just buy a new tablet for the exclusive use in the plane and you still have yours so you can still use it for your other needs.

-Maps and everything else stays updated FREE, IFly needs a paid subscription.
 
I think you are missing a couple of points here. With the iFly mounted, you no longer NEED the tablet for anything. If you WANT to use it for something, like advance flight planning, the exact same app runs on Apple or Android tablets and from what I understand will sync flight plans to the 740. Not that it matters much, because I honestly don?t see a need for that. And (as I?ve pointed out a few times already) the tablet won?t replace the 496 for providing GPS data to the Dynon. The extra couple of wires really aren?t a factor.

Mounting a tablet isn?t all daisies and sunshine. You?ll need a reliable 5V USB source wired in, and you?ll have to find and install something better than a Ram mount. Oh, wait... no, because you STILL need to get to that bloody 496.

We considered pretty much every possible path here. The iFly 740 won out by a good margin.

Hoping to get time to solder up the cable tomorrow, so we can flight test this weekend. Really looking forward to seeing how well it all works together.
 
DaleB,

Once you get the 740 mount dialed in, are you going to consider making a kit for sale? I would certainly be interested. I basically ignore my 396, except for the autopilot input, and rely on the 740.
 
DaleB,

Once you get the 740 mount dialed in, are you going to consider making a kit for sale? I would certainly be interested. I basically ignore my 396, except for the autopilot input, and rely on the 740.

The mount I cooked up is unique to the RV-12. I'll certainly publish the Solidworks file and the STL so people can 3D print their own. It's a pretty long print job, so I'm not sure about offering to print for other people but I'm not ruling it out. I could make it a lot faster by printing it in two pieces to be glued together. As it is, the "clip" part at the bottom means nearly the entire thing gets printed with supports, which takes an extra hour or so.

I wanted to make sure it was stout enough to withstand normal use in a -12, including getting bounced around in turbulence. I lack the engineering chops to conduct any sort of stress analysis, but at present I suspect it's somewhat over-built. I'm fine with that, but I would like to slim it down a little if I can. I made the main body of the mount .25" thick, with counterbored holes for the screw heads. In hindsight, I could probably make it a lot thinner and forego the counterbores since the scree heads are nowhere near the GPS itself. I guess I just got a little carried away learning how to do stuff in Solidworks. :)

After we fly with it for a week or two, I may try a Version 2 design to use less print time and plastic, get it a little closer to the panel, and still be strong enough not to worry about it flexing or breaking.
 
I have had my 740 since it was introduced. Made a simple channel clip mounted to the panel. The 740 slips up under it to secure the top of the unit to the panel. The bottom just pushes to the panel and held with velcro. It sets right on top of my transponder and is flush with it. Can be removed in 15 seconds.

The unit is full of features and is well supported. But it has one flaw...... REFLECTION. Plan for it.
 
I have had my 740 since it was introduced. Made a simple channel clip mounted to the panel. The 740 slips up under it to secure the top of the unit to the panel. The bottom just pushes to the panel and held with velcro. It sets right on top of my transponder and is flush with it. Can be removed in 15 seconds.

The unit is full of features and is well supported. But it has one flaw...... REFLECTION. Plan for it.
Would it be possible to take a picture and post up what your solution is? Would be helpful to others here.
 
See post #49 above. Today I took the iPhone 7 running ForeFlight out to the plane for a flight. Overall size is nearly same when I held the phone in front of the Garmin 296 and screen size may actually be a little larger. I ran the phone in “Airplane Mode” and connected WiFi to the uAvionix UAT transceiver for traffic and weather. Worked a charm. Display is very readable in bright sunlight, and when positioned in front of the Garmin at the top of the radio stack, glare off the screen isn’t a problem either. Larger screen on iPhone 7 Plus might be ideal...

My conclusion is that the phone would be a good replacement for the Garmin allowing same touch-screen capability as a mini iPad. This idea has some merit and I will give it further consideration.

Pros / Cons…

• I would lose GPS position data sent to the D-180 if I removed the Garmin. In my case, not a big problem because I don’t have autopilot. Essentially, I would lose winds-aloft display on the D-180.
• How to power the phone with ugly plug-in connector – maybe run on internal battery and charge after each flight? Maybe wireless inductive charging from back of phone?
• Mount to panel using a cell phone case. Cell phone case would be similar to and function like a Garmin AirGizmo dock. Installation would be really clean.
• iPhone 7 Plus has larger screen and can be bought used for less than $200
• ForeFlight has a Cockpit Sharing feature that will slave mini iPad and cellphone

So many things to think about for a retired engineer... My ten-year old granddaughter says "Papa overthinks everything" and my wife thinks I’m crazy.

 
Last edited:
See post #49 above. Today I took the iPhone 7 running ForeFlight out to the plane for a flight.

One word of caution .. I use my iPhone X with ForeFlight in my RV-9A, and if the sun is hitting the phone, it will overheat. I have not yet had the phone go to the overheat screen, but I've seen the processor slow to a crawl to the point that ForeFlight was unusable. It wouldn't pan, zoom, or even update the screen. So, if you will be using the iPhone in the cockpit, I'd strongly recommend that you come up with a means to keep it out of the sunlight so you don't run into overheat problems.
 
Correct... I currently have mini iPad running ForeFlight. I remove the iPad when the plane is parked in the sun. iPad doesn't like heat or cold and requires gentle warming if temp is below freezing.
 
Well, its finished for now. I installed everything yesterday, but the D180 wasn't getting GPS data. Found some wires swapped, fixed that, but still no joy. This morning I replaced the ancient USB to serial adapter I had (bought years ago and used for all manner of lab and bench experiments) with a new one from Best Buy. That worked. I took a 45-minute test flight, got ADS-B traffic on the display, played with the flight plan, tested the AP and CDI, everything works as it should. We'll need to spend some time setting up the screen to show what we want, but that's pretty simple to do. I requested a PAPR report post-flight, because I've been making adjustments to the echoUAT threshold settings. Even that was near perfect -- 0.26% BARO ALT failures, so nothing bad.

Overall I'm happy with it. It doesn't block the radio display like I was afraid it might. I'll probably print one more mount with a few tweaks to make it more stable when using the touch screen.

Reflection from the screen is a little much to get good pictures, but not enough to make it difficult to read. A non-glare screen would have been a plus, but it's pretty low on the list of things to gripe about. It's more legible then the D180, really. I like the alerts for traffic, airspace, etc. Now the only thing left to do is figure out which AV board volume control to tweak to get the audio louder -- I can barely hear it with the iFly volume up full. Too bad you can't get at those without pulling the forward skin, that's a PITA.

TONS better than the 496, and better than the 496 and a tablet. It's a win, I'm happy with it.
 
Now the only thing left to do is figure out which AV board volume
control to tweak to get the audio louder -- I can barely hear it with the iFly
volume up full.
With the D-180 RV-12, The GPS audio does not get
amplified by Van's control board. Use a ground loop isolator between the iFly
and the Flightcom 403 intercom pins 18 and 19 aux music input.
Perhaps eBay item number:151617844291
https://previews.dropbox.com/p/thumb/AAh5Q1C6gGC72mOr_e9LoNZi04_mPqPjEBn1wGKMYvoWl9MkSzbdSjMc4uxUY0ECYX0BNTAT9rZhMWC8aD64e_jJi9QUpWwM4l8DzUuc31lYW2V79ppAiAFU-CIou-yYaDQ7CIPbE4EYKnaEU4oM9SNIfMP2aDpI6LO9wu95lWq_jXrZMWWvKTmNsKH9JpQL6R0zpJttGGdGNdDKm-WmP5SRd0UJAd_Tl8z55gESDYoFq_yCzRrYiSG-WnpH_aOGzdCkQoIxOehasz0KP2WB1ToR2iNYcw06bf6Eb9YwVSOEnePyKoTETZh9utBTPpCtpzNhuthJNmpqLcCMBkOfHfoE/p.jpeg?fv_content=true&size_mode=5
 
Last edited:
SD card

I've been flying with an iFly 720 for several years and really like it. The only problem I ever had was that the data on the SD card got corrupted once on a short x-country and the Maps wouldn't come up. Since then I carry a backup SD card with map data on it. It's only happened that one time. John
 
Dale, will your DynonA/P ?cut the corner ? as it approaches the waypoints now that it?s talking to the Ifly?
 
I?ve decided to get serious about replacing my Gamin 296 with an Apple device so I can run ForeFlight on a second screen. I have a Mini iPad mounted at an angle below the pilot?s D-180 and I like this mounting position.

ForeFlight allows multiple devices to be used at same time on a single account. Now I want to replace the 296 with an iPhone 6S+ that has a 5.5? display. ForeFlight has cockpit sharing and synch to make one display a master and the second display a slave. This will make programming routes for both displays very simple.

I can buy a refurbished iPhone 6S+ for $150 and a Guardian Avionics SmartPanel mount for $129.

Stay tuned?





 
So, I went out to the plane this morning to see how an iPhone 6S Plus might fit to replace the Garmin 296. By chance, held the mini iPad up over the panel hole and it fits perfectly. On my airplane there is enough clearance between the canopy bow and the panel for the thin iPad. So, there’s my answer – I’m going to run two mini iPad’s on ForeFlight with cockpit sharing between the two displays. I'll probably run the center screen on Sectional map page and the angled screen on Aeronautical map page which is better for viewing traffic and weather.

The new mini iPad will be “fastened” to the panel with Velcro 3/8” discs so unit can be removed for updates. The top four panel screws need to be changed from round head to flat head so unit sits flush.

I’ll decide later if a power cable is desired. The mini iPad has an internal battery that operates for ten hours so I may just run it on its own power.

This will be cool….







host image
 
Last edited:
I?ll decide later if a power cable is desired. The mini iPad has an internal battery that operates for ten hours so I may just run it on its own power.

Before deciding, I?d suggest running your iPad on battery power as close to in the exact configuration as you will be running it in the airplane, and seeing how the battery does. The amount of time that you get on the battery will vary significantly depending on how you have it setup.. screen brightness, WiFi on/off, Bluetooth on/off, the apps you?re running, what you are doing with those apps, etc.

I would not be shocked to hear that your ?ten hour iPad? battery lasts for 2-3 hours the way that you?re using it.
 
I flew with both mini iPads this morning. Totally cool. 4-leg route was set up on my iPhone at home running FF and then, when I got to the plane, I did cockpit sharing and transferred the route into both mini iPads. In the air I could pan ahead and zoom to see close traffic on one screen while the other remained optimized for cruise flight.

The new center screen (mini 4) used 25% battery for the one-hour flight - not bad. I?ll continue operating on internal battery for the interim.

Tickety Boo.


Final installation...

 
How about some pictures Jim?

That is the picture...

Remove instrument bay cover sheetmetal to gain access to screws holding old Garmin mount. I left the GPS antenna cable and Garmin power cable tucked away behind the panel. Install four flat-head screws at top of instrument panel so iPad can mount flush over large hole vacated by the Garmin. I mount the iPad with four small pieces of 3M Body Side Molding Tape - one on each back corner of the iPad. iPad can be removed with razor blade to slit the mounting tape. Perfect...
 
What ever you fly with, I recommend staying with the same software for the reason of simplicity and continuity of your thinking process when flying. I have the ifly in the panel and at one point early on was using something else at the same time... wing x maybe, I don't remember. The problem was they were different which required lots of thinking about how to do what on either one. When ifly added second/third devices for $20.... I dropped the other. Eliminated lots of confusion. Ifly is VERY intuitive to use and it drives my Dynon autopilot too.
Here is a good example. I was 120 miles from home couple weekends ago and lost my alternator. After landing and checking everything... alt was bad. I flew home with the master switch off. I had the ifly software on my nexus tablet and my iphone. The nexus was getting adsb info from my back up stratux and the phone was doing a good job by itself. (For some reason I couldn't get it to pick up the wifi from the stratux). Same ifly software on all three made for a seamless transition to use the other devices. Ifly has always worked very well for me.
 
Well, the bad news is... my 3D printed mount failed. I'm really not THAT surprised, since the little mounting bosses have shear and tension stresses on them in the exact wrong direction for the 3D printed layers. In other words... the weakest part is the part that's stressed the most, in its weakest direction. Oh, well... it was a fun exercise designing and printing it, at least. If it were injection molded in ABS, it would probably last forever. And, my CNC router doesn't have enough axes to do the job.

Not a big problem. I'll fabricate a simple aluminum plate, with a hole for the cables, to cover the hole from the 496. I'd much rather just replace the center portion of the panel, but that would mean pulling the throttle, choke and heat cables... no thanks. Anyway, we'll either mount the iFly GPS with some industrial Velcro, or use a commercially available injection molded part attached to that.

Both of us are quite happy flying with the iFly. Easy to use, we've got ADS-B traffic and weather in addition to all the airport data, etc. And, it talks to the autopilot and HSI just fine. We've just added a third partner, he was pretty impressed by it as well (admittedly easy to do, since he's been flying trainers until now).
 
I mounted my mini iPad over the central Garmin GPS panel hole using 3M Super Strength Molding Tape. I have 3/8" length in each of the four corners. Works a charm. If every you want to remove just slice the tape with a razor knife.
 
Hoping someone can help. My 396 has always been connected to my Trutrak Pic Pilot via a single wire off the 396 pigtail sending the NMEA to the TT. I?m currently looking at the iFly 740B to replace my 396 in conjunction with the EchoUat. iFly sells a USB to Serial cable with a DB-9 plug for NMEA input to the A/P. My question: What do I do with that cable? The Trutrak only needs a one wire input for the NMEA. So I?m confused.
 
Pick off the one serial signal you need. It's a DB9 serial connector, but you only need data on pin 3 and ground on pin 5.
 
After reading thru these posts and others, it sounds like the iFly is a great product/company and as good or better than FF. My question is what would be a better way to go, new iPad mini 5 or the actual ifly display? I've heard the mini 5 has improved glare suppression compared to previous models. I will be using in a bubble canopy plane. Any real world comps?
 
I still love the old GPS496 - never let me down after 11+ years. I use an iPad/Foreflight/Scout for ADS-B in and GDL82 for ADS-B out. The iPad/Foreflight and GPS496 make a nice combo, and the GPS redundancy is nice. Sure, new avionics would be nice, but I'd rather spend the money on other things, like AvGas.
 
I still love the old GPS496 - never let me down after 11+ years. I use an iPad/Foreflight/Scout for ADS-B in and GDL82 for ADS-B out. The iPad/Foreflight and GPS496 make a nice combo, and the GPS redundancy is nice. Sure, new avionics would be nice, but I'd rather spend the money on other things, like AvGas.

Amen, why pay for a subscription when you get everything free on the iPad?

I have a 496 driving the autopilot and an INS-429 for IFR flights and approaches. I then have an iPad for WingX with synthetic vision and AHRS driven attitude indicator (free) and ADS-B IN (free) from a Stratux (almost free compared with the commercial prices for the same thing). I also have a Garmin Aera 560 with velcro currently testing to see if I replace the 496 with it since I have both Gizmo docks but up to now the 496 is winning.
 
Last edited:
I?ve thought about replacing my 396 with an Aera. I swapped the 396 in when the 496 needed repair. Since I have the 496 spare and the 396 operates so well it is hard for me to justify the cost and effort to go to anything more modern.
 
I still love the old GPS496 - never let me down after 11+ years. I use an iPad/Foreflight/Scout for ADS-B in and GDL82 for ADS-B out. The iPad/Foreflight and GPS496 make a nice combo, and the GPS redundancy is nice. Sure, new avionics would be nice, but I'd rather spend the money on other things, like AvGas.

+1

Will never get rid of my 496. I'm always suspicious of ADS-B weather as I and many others have found it not as accurate as XM. The iPad and 496 complement each other. Neither can replace the other.
 
I?m glad you guys like your 496?s. You?re more than welcome to them. We?re very happy with the iFly?s mich larger touch screen, better readability, increased information, less expensive chart updates, easier and flight planning, and ability to work with our various tablets and phones.

To each their own. Vive la diff?rence!
 
I’m glad you guys like your 496’s. You’re more than welcome to them. We’re very happy with the iFly’s mich larger touch screen, better readability, increased information, less expensive chart updates, easier and flight planning, and ability to work with our various tablets and phones.

To each their own. Vive la différence!

I’m glad you like the iFly. I’ll stick with my FREE WingX with a much larger touch screen on my iPad, better readability with Retina Display, lots more information, FREE chart updates, easier VFR and IFR flight planning.... :D
 
I?m glad you like the iFly. I?ll stick with my FREE WingX with a much larger touch screen on my iPad, better readability with Retina Display, lots more information, FREE chart updates, easier VFR and IFR flight planning.... :D

I really liked my FREE Avare on my Android tablet too, with its FREE chart updates and all, but my co-owners are iThingy users and I kinda wanted to use one (and only one) device that would also drive the A/P. So we've got one hardware device in the plane that will do all of it (nav, AP, wx, traffic, etc) with matching apps for Android and iOS, with whatever backup anyone wants to use.

Have fun, everybody.
 
I really liked my FREE Avare on my Android tablet too, with its FREE chart updates and all, but my co-owners are iThingy users and I kinda wanted to use one (and only one) device that would also drive the A/P. So we've got one hardware device in the plane that will do all of it (nav, AP, wx, traffic, etc) with matching apps for Android and iOS, with whatever backup anyone wants to use.

Have fun, everybody.

Co-owners...:(. Oh well at least you’re flying and that makes everything worth it :)
 
Co-owners...:(. Oh well at least you?re flying and that makes everything worth it :)

Nothing wrong with co-owners. I don?t feel compelled to let the airplane sit idle when I can?t fly. I bought the thing myself and owned it solo for a couple of years before taking on a partner, and now there are three of us. So far we?ve had zero conflicts. Of course you do have to make sure your intended uses and personalities are compatible. There are roughly 200 or so VFR days per year here... I can?t fly all of them.
 
Nothing wrong with co-owners. I don’t feel compelled to let the airplane sit idle when I can’t fly. I bought the thing myself and owned it solo for a couple of years before taking on a partner, and now there are three of us. So far we’ve had zero conflicts. Of course you do have to make sure your intended uses and personalities are compatible. There are roughly 200 or so VFR days per year here... I can’t fly all of them.

Makes sense for your purposes and you’re one of the lucky ones who have made it work. For others it can be a nightmare, just ask the owner who can’t get insurance and had to sell his beautiful plane (I was willing to sell my plane just to buy his and I love my plane) because his co-owner bent a prop, twice, and his name was on the insurance so he’s also blamed for it.
 
Last edited:
Makes sense for your purposes and you’re one of the lucky ones who have made it work. For others it can be a nightmare, just ask the owner who can’t get insurance and had to sell his beautiful plane (I was willing to sell my plane just to buy his and I love my plane) because his co-owner bent a prop, twice, and his name was on the insurance so he’s also blamed for it.

Ground loops and taildraggers are synonymous. I've heard it said, not if, but when, for ground loops. If the second co owner that ground looped had manned up, and paid for all the repairs, instead of submitting a claim, it would be a non issue with insurance. Submitting 2x for the same scenario for new prop, complete engine check after the prop strike, etc is of course going to get you red flagged. Those aren't cheap claims.

Not as common on a trike, like a RV-12 and reflected in the insurance rates, too.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top