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RV-14 Annapolis, MD

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More photos will be posted to my Builder's Log: https://eaabuilderslog.org/?blproject&proj=7XHlh0tiH

Above this line is the most up to date information/pictures
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Below this line is the legacy first post


Hello, I am recent addition to the Vans Air Force community. I earned my PPL in March 2019, and have been working on my instruments rating based out of Lee Airport (KANP), Annapolis. For years I've been researching options for home building and finally settled on the RV-14A. My work space will be my detached garage, which has room for two cars and an attached room in the back for most of the work (double door connects rooms for easy of transport). I'm in the process of putting together some wood workbenches and figuring out how to lay everything out.

I recently took an EAA 2-day course on "RV Assembly" so I finally understand the basics of riveting and the tools that are needed to build an RV. I have almost none of the required tools at this point. For first time builders, is it recommended to get a comprehensive RV tool kit from one of the manufacturers on Van's website? Also, why are there so many tools/supplies that are "RV-14 only"? It seems a bit strange that RV-14 has such special needs compared to the other models.

I plan to use this thread to document my progress, share some photos, etc. My local EAA Chapter (571) has several home builders so I plan to discuss my progress with them as well. Other than tools, I think my first challenge will be figuring out how to be home to accept delivery of the tailcone (not ordered yet). I'll hold off on ordering the empennage kit for a little while longer while I finish the woodworking.
 
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Fist, welcome to the community! I, too, am a first-time builder who is almost finished with the Empennage kit. You're going to love it!

For first time builders, is it recommended to get a comprehensive RV tool kit from one of the manufacturers on Van's website?
This is the route I took, to a degree. I had a few of the basic tools required and none of the tools required to do aluminum sheet work. I also didn't have the extra $2,700 for the complete RV-14 tool kit after paying for the Empennage kit so I called and spoke to the fine folks at Cleaveland Aircraft Tool. They had me purchase a basic Empennage Tool Kit and added things that I would need for the 14. It came out to be about $1,000 cheaper than the full -14 tool kit, plus the purchase of a few things needed along the way. PM me if you want and I can send you a copy of my invoice along with other things that I purchased as the build progressed. The folks at Clevealand are awesome; I would highly recommend purchasing from them!


Also, why are there so many tools/supplies that are "RV-14 only"? It seems a bit strange that RV-14 has such special needs compared to the other models.

I have only been working on my -14 so I don't have knowledge of other models but I don't think the special tools needed are indicative of anything significantly functionally different, just a different design that creates some odd angles in places. The elevators are the only place I can think of where I needed several model-specific tools. The trailing edge wedge on the elevators is "backwards" (i.e. the tapered edge is fwd and the fatter edge is aft), so a special angled die in the squeezer helps set the trailing edge rivets. Also the special bucking bar is really the only way to reach the rear spar to rivet the skin to the spar, at least without bending the skin trying to reach your arm in between the two skins at the trailing edge. Some of the special tools are necessary, some just make things more convenient.
 
Thanks for the thoughts Bigspoon17. I think I'm going to order the empennage kit now. Once I get it I'll give Cleveland a call to discuss tool options since you had a good experience with them.

I'll also share a photo of the workshop, fresh kit, and tools before I start working.
 
You can certainly start with standard tools - once you get your empennage kit start looking at each section to determine any special or specific tools you may need. Most builders end up buying quite a number of tools during the build that are for convenience as much as need. Pneumatic squeezers, DRDT dimpler tool, reamers for all common drill sizes, etc. No one ever built an RV and said "I wish I had used fewer tools".

Lots of builders blogs online you can also use a reference.
 
Thanks mturnerb, I'll try to walk in the footsteps of other builders and learn from whatever they discuss or post online.

I received my empennage kit today. I was prepared and had wiss snips and a crowbar ready to open the crate. The inventory took a good while, but I was only missing a small bracket and two pop rivets, as far as I could tell. I called Vans and they are sending them to me. I'm going to spend some time studying the documentation that came with the kit, acquire tools, and set my workshop up more thoroughly.
 
Welcome to the journey!! I would highly recommend spending a few bucks and some time on the practice kits. You will start to see some of the tools you will need and why. DO NOT be afraid to call a bad rivet bad and drill it out and replace it. Practice drilling and replacing rivets. You will soon learn there is a difference between an ugly rivet and a bad rivet.
Take your time and enjoy the ride.

My opinion is worth what you paid for it...or less.
 
There are at least four - 14s in the DMV area that are flying. Three 14As and one tail dragger. I also know of at least 2 under construction. I'm sure we can arrange a ride for you or have you visit those under construction as well. PM me and I can get you in touch with all.
 
Thinking about it, I'd rather get the specialized tools up front to reduce schedule risk and take advantage of bulk discounts. I received a quote for the RV-14 package from Cleaveland. What I notice is that there are a lot of differences between the list of tools in the RV 11"x17" plans and the quote's inventory. For example, the plans call for 10 5/32" Clecos, but the quote does not include any. The plans call for 350 3/32" Clecos, but the quote includes five packs of 100.

I think I understand the philosophy of the tool company. They want to provide what you will really need, not necessarily exactly what Vans calls for. However, as a new builder it is hard to know when it's okay to deviate from Vans' exact tool list and when it's not.

Many of the tools in the plans are easily acquired from common tool stores, so they are not included in the quote. However, the quote, after discount, is about $2664 with shipping and does not include an air compressor, bench grinder, drill press or several other large tools that are very good to have. Is Vans a bit full of it when they say, "You should plan on spending $1500 or more for a complete set of tools"?

How should I reconcile the many apparent differences between the inventory and the quote? For example, Vans calls for drill bits #3, 11, 16, 36, 43, and 52, which are not part of this quote. The plans call for about 9 taps, none of which seem to be in this quote. The quote includes some items that don't seem to be in Vans' list of tools.

I guess I could get quote from the other companies and also compare against the inventory they recommend, but it took me hours to research the tools on these two lists as it is. At times, it's hard to tell how a tool in the quote fulfills the recommendation in the plans. I'm sure for plane #2 I'll know the tools better and this will all be much easier!
 
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Thinking about it, I'd rather get the specialized tools up front to reduce schedule risk and take advantage of bulk discounts. I received a quote for the RV-14 package from Cleaveland. What I notice is that there are a lot of differences between the list of tools in the RV 11"x17" plans and the quote's inventory. For example, the plans call for 10 5/32" Clecos, but the quote does not include any. The plans call for 350 3/32" Clecos, but the quote includes five packs of 100.

I think I understand the philosophy of the tool company. They want to provide what you will really need, not necessarily exactly what Vans calls for. However, as a new builder it is hard to know when it's okay to deviate from Vans' exact tool list and when it's not.

Many of the tools in the plans are easily acquired from common tool stores, so they are not included in the quote. However, the quote, after discount, is about $2664 with shipping and does not include an air compressor, bench grinder, drill press or several other large tools that are very good to have. Is Vans a bit full of it when they say, "You should plan on spending $1500 or more for a complete set of tools"?

How should I reconcile the many apparent differences between the inventory and the quote? For example, Vans calls for drill bits #3, 11, 16, 36, 43, and 52, which are not part of this quote. The plans call for about 9 taps, none of which seem to be in this quote. The quote includes some items that don't seem to be in Vans' list of tools.

I guess I could get quote from the other companies and also compare against the inventory they recommend, but it took me hours to research the tools on these two lists as it is. At times, it's hard to tell how a tool in the quote fulfills the recommendation in the plans. I'm sure for plane #2 I'll know the tools better and this will all be much easier!


When I started, I compared a few "complete" tool kits from multiple vendors - none are truly complete; not even close (I've spent over $8k in tools so far). You'll be placing many orders in the first year(s) as you realize what tools you want/need/crave. For example, the drill bits you mentioned you will use at some point; however, I only used a #3 bit the other day for the Garmin servo install in the right wing (about 15 months since I started). Likewise, I only recently had to buy a tap and die set. As for the clecos, I opted to get 10 of the 5/32" and 10 of the 3/16" - I know the 5/32" will be used in the fuselage, but I've also used them in tooling holes to hold and manipulate different parts. You can't have enough 3/32" clecos (I think I have 600), so I'd go with Cleaveland's recommendation at a minimum - I found that when I built multiple sections of the wing at the same time, I still ran out. Oh, and Van's grossly underestimates the cost of everything - $1500 for tools is wildly inaccurate ... unless you are buying used from a very charitable seller.

_Alex
 
Based on this feedback as well as discussions in the other thread, I decided to order the Cleaveland RV-14 tool kit. In addition, I ordered a 20 gallons compressor. I'm thinking about whether I will want to get the drill press, bench grinder, and band saw. Perhaps I will wait until I need them and talk to more 14 builders.

Also, the documentation that came with the RV-14 crate, Empennage Packet, says, "Steel parts, if not powder coated, should be oiled or primed immediately." The majority of the parts are obviously aluminum, but there are a few parts that are not covered in that blue material. I went over them with a magnet but none of them reacted... is that an adequate test to validate that I don't need to oil/prime anything from the RV-14A empennage kit?

In other news, I completed my second EAA 1000 workbench. The second one was much easier because I had the first one to put the project on!
 
I bought my tools separately. Don't know if that was cost effective but it avoided buying things in a kit that I didn't want. Jason Ellis (palamedes here on VAF) put together a tool list that I used to get going. It was based on the Van's recommended list but had his commentary on whether it was required vs optional, and when in the build he needed it which made it easy to defer buying some items until I needed them.

I have yet to receive a steel component that isn't powder coated. I suspect that statement is a holdover from a time when steel parts did occasionally ship naked. As for the aluminum, all of the real think aluminum doubler plates (the 1/8" think and greater) and angle iron should be primed.
 
Since funding isn't currently a problem (that may change later :)) I ordered the RV-14 Tool kit from Cleaveland, as well as a 20 gallon air compressor from Harbor Freight.

I finished assembling my second EAA 1000 workbench. Next thing I need to do is take another look at my aluminum empennage components since the steele ones are already powder coated, and decide what to do about it. I have oil I could apply to protect them, since I have no idea at this point what I'm going to eventually do about priming. I didn't realize I was going to be on a clock for that one until after I received the kit.

edit: Also, I'm logging my efforts and costs using eaabuilderslog.org
 
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LEE

I flew into Lee last Sunday with my -10 and picked up a friend of mine to go get his plane down near NC. Great little airport.
 
I realized my knowledge regarding priming is very deficient, so after reading through the documentation provided to me by Vans, I created this thread in the Priming section: http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=175790 I'm sure I'm not the only new builder with questions like these, although I'll admit I'm proper in the lower quartiles :p

I flew into Lee last Sunday with my -10 and picked up a friend of mine to go get his plane down near NC. Great little airport.
It's a good location (walking distance to downtown Edgewater) but you need to be on top of your short fields.
 
Build on...

Dude, no one has said this yet, but they will... "Build On!"

Don't let all this bog you down right from the start and keep you from enjoying the journey. There will be plenty of questions and none of this will "kill" your project.

Enjoy!

Wb
 
Good call. My kit didn't come with an air-powered drill so I actually need to get one of those. Any difference between 2600 and 4000 rpm? They are both within Vans' recommendation. Also, I've read online that it's worth paying extra for the keyless chuck... any downsides, besides cost, to going keyless?

I've completed step 1 of the empennage which involved placing two clecos! Need to match drill next while I figure out the primer I will use and which items need to be primed.
 
Another builder I know just used a cordless or corded drill for his entire build and was happy not getting an air drill, so I did the same and have been perfectly fine without. Besides I hate listening to my compressor, so the less time it?s working makes me happy. Radio is much better company than a compressor.
 
Made some improvements to the workshop and acquired more tools. I did some practice projects but have finally started working on the plane.

I completed empennage page 6-02 without issue, but on 6-03 I accidentally scraped a bit of white powder coating off of a hinge bracket. The drill bit was a bit too short and I didn't realize, then the chuck scraped against the highest point on the bracket. The structure of the bracket seems fine, but the powder coating is opened up. I'm guessing I need to do something about this since the metal is exposed along some scratches now. Can I paint over it with something, do I need to replace the bracket, or something else?

Thanks. Looking forward to making good progress now!

edit: I've moved the question to the primer forum here: http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showpost.php?p=1395015&postcount=15
 
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Great, that is what I did.

I am deburring and getting ready to prime some parts before riveting the vertical stabilizer together. My progress will slow down again due to some travel but what can you do.
 
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