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fiberglass cloth/windscreen

Tape

What type and weight of fiberglass cloth is best for windscreen fairings?
Jeff,


Days have elapsed since you posted your query and I'm surprised that to date has gone completely unanswered. I am by no means a fiberglass guru and working with fiberglass is an art I do not consider myself particularily skilled or knowledgeable about. For the purposes of fashioning the windscreen fairing, I'm not sure how the experts go about defining what fiberglass material is "best." There may be any number of acceptable materials and ways to fashion a windscreen. Since no one has responded to your query, I'll hazard the following. For both my projects I used fiberglass tape exclusively. I believe I learned about tape from one of George Orndorff's early construction videos. It's 3" width seems about right and by slightly offsetting each run, a four-ply layup works for me. A description and source for fiberglass tape is found here:

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/etapes.php

The images show a work in progress. The offset in the tape lay up is apparent.

11jq68g.jpg
 
Thanks Rick

Thanks for the advice and pix. Looks clean and neat, the tape is far easier than cutting cloth which seems to always be a mess. i think the reason I didn't get any response at first is I posted in wrong place.
 
windscreen

im working on my RV-6 wind screen as we speak and dave watson gave me some insight to get started on it which helped out alot one of the best tips was to go to the fabric store and get the pizza roller cutter with cutting board @ $21 it will cut fabric very nice also i went to Lowes in there paint dept and got fiberglass cloth one pack is more than enough for $9 and im using West epoxy its just one of those things you just got to dive into it gets better as you go along hope this helps
bob
 
lowes fiberglass

I have the cutter and board. On thought on fiberglass from Lowe's or autopart stores is they tend to be pretty heavy fabric and not real conducive to curves. i've been told cutting on the bias (angle across the weave) helps with this.
jjet
 
For stuff like that, I prefer to cut bias tapes from 9oz 7725 fiberglass cloth. The 7725 drapes really well, especially on the bias, and wets out pretty easily.
 
I am by no means a fiberglass expert, but i was raised by a Home Ec teacher, which means I learned a lot about sewing my own outdoors equipment at an early age....so I agree with Bob - cutting strips from regular cloth on a bias will make things drape much better on the compound curves, ultimately making a better part that is easier to finish. I like applying tape because of the finished edges, but those edges make it harder to lay it on a curve, and the edges will also create bumps that will need to be sanded away.

The good thing about glass work is that it is fairly easy to sand it off and re-work it if you don't like the results.

Paul
 
I am by no means a fiberglass expert, but i was raised by a Home Ec teacher, which means I learned a lot about sewing my own outdoors equipment at an early age....so I agree with Bob - cutting strips from regular cloth on a bias will make things drape much better on the compound curves, ultimately making a better part that is easier to finish. I like applying tape because of the finished edges, but those edges make it harder to lay it on a curve, and the edges will also create bumps that will need to be sanded away.

The good thing about glass work is that it is fairly easy to sand it off and re-work it if you don't like the results.

Paul

You can actually get both in a single package...:)

A 45 degree bias in tape format. West Systems sells it as a double layer tape, and it does work well...

http://www.pyacht.com/west-biaxial-tape.htm
 
For stuff like that, I prefer to cut bias tapes from 9oz 7725 fiberglass cloth. The 7725 drapes really well, especially on the bias, and wets out pretty easily.

Agree with Bob...7725 twill or 7781 8-harness.

Tape is fine, if the lay doesn't include compound curvature and if the selvage (the thick edge you see in the photos) won't be a bother.
 
You can actually get both in a single package...:)

A 45 degree bias in tape format. West Systems sells it as a double layer tape, and it does work well...

http://www.pyacht.com/west-biaxial-tape.htm

That stuff is basically strips of Kyntex knitted double-bias. I like using it for shear tapes in spots where it will be hidden or where it will be covered by a twill like 7725 or plain weave like 7781. But I think it doesn't drape as well as 7725, so I wouldn't use it out in the open like on a windshield fairing.

Thanks, Bob K.
 
JJet:

Just laid mine up last week. I used the tape method (2 in). I started by cutting them as suggested by Vans starting with 1/2 in. and progressing up to 2 in. using a pizza cutter cloth doohickey. I used 8 layers with a final layer to fair things over. I used 8 layers of 2 in. tape over the roll bar and then carved down the leading edge with a rasp and sand paper. The woven edge will leave some air bubbles as it doesn't lay fully flat. I augured out the gaps with a Dremel bit and then added one application of cotton flock to fill things in. Sanded that and have a coating of micro balloons curing now. It is a bit of sanding but, it gives a nice professional look.

I dyed my epoxy black for the front fairing (for tape, flock and balloons) but, used clear epoxy over the roll bar.
I started the whole process by first applying a small fillet of black dyed micro balloons around the edge of the glass just to fill in the gap so the tape wouldn’t sag. Keep this filet small to ensure a good bonding area for the fiber glass.

I started by sanding everything well with 60 grit. I applied epoxy to the cloth strips on my table and then put them in place wet. I painted a thin layer of epoxy on the areas to be covered before placing the strips to ensure a good bond down into the sanding marks. All this was done in one, 4-hour session in order to get a good bond with all the strips.
 
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I used the 3" tape like Rick

I used EZ-Poxy resin with 24hr hardner but I followed the the Orndorf video using the tape. I used 9 layers around the front and over the top. After you beat the resin into the cloth with a small section of sponge before it is applied, it is so flexible that it will not give any wrinkle problems in this application. It was filled with a micro balloon and epoxy mix then sealed with epoxy thinned 50% with acetone and flown for a year before painting. It still looks perfectly smooth and seemless. As long as you take you time and work with it to get what you want it is a pretty easy job. Be sure to mask the plexiglass well.

Bob Axsom
 
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My less than $.02 worth

Used "Rutan Cloth" from ACS and AeroPoxy. I applied in incrementally wider strips as described in the instructions by wetting out a large two layer piece on visqueen. Prior to wetting out, I marked one side of the plastic in the 1/2, 1, 1 1/2, etc strips for use as cutting guides. Use a large Sharpie. After wetting and squeeging the excess resin from the cloth (not on the side with the lines), I put another layer of visqueen on the strips, squeegeed that down to the cloth, then cut using a pizza cutter type fabric cutter on a cutting mat, with a straightedge as a guide over the pre-marked lines.

Now you have all the strips you need, covered in visqueen and easily transported to the work surfaces. Carefully pull the visqueen off one side of the cloth, move it around and stipple in place till happy with it, trim then ends then slowly peel off the visqueent on the front side. Continue with the other strips then on the last layer, finish with peel ply, squeegeeing the material into the glass. (PeelPly is Rayon fabric available from ACS or boat building supply houses.) This DRAMATICALLY improves the finish and reduces sanding.

Adding the black pigment is a GREAT idea. Wish I had. One of the finishing touches that provides a subtle but very professional looking touch.

There's another hundred ways to do this and you'll hear them all.

Good luck!!
 
Fiberglass cloth/windscreen--edge

What do you use to get finish the surface and how do I get a fine edge at the glass/plexi intersections?
 
Just as Vans states in the instructions, 2 layers of good,vinyl electrical tape. You want to fill right to the edges of the tape. I overlapped the fiber glass on the tape and sanded down to the tape. It gives a nice clean edge.
 
how thick are 4 layers?

I'm replicating the method used in the George Orndorff videos. The airplane is ready for the layups.

I've got a roll of "Standard E-Glass Tape" from Aircraft Spruce (2 inch width). Their website says it is 0.012 thick.

In the video, George used 4 layers. That would be 0.048, which seems pretty thick. Of course, the way he staggered the layers it wouldn't be that thick at the edge. Maybe only 1 or 2 layers.

Is this correct? On the plexi side, I'm thinking of using either 2 layers of electrical tape, or the roll of rubber pipe wrap tape I bought from Menards (saw it in a thread here somewhere). It is pretty tough, stretchy, and 0.024 thick. I guess I'd use just one layer of that.

I'm looking for someone to confirm that 4 layers of fiberglass tape will be OK, and maybe give me an idea of if my electrical or pipewrap tape will work or not.

I did see DanH's posts about the fineline tapes. I'd like to use what I have if it will work.

Thanks for any help!
 
Okay, I don't know much about RV's yet but having built 3 EZ's glass work is something I do know about! My recommendation is use one layer of 3M (not cheapo Ace Hardware) vinyl electrical tape on the canopy plexi and use N-1** layers of 7725 cut on a 45* bias layed up on visqueen per an earlier post. Keep the edge of the N-1 layup about 1/16" away from the vinyl tape and once that is in place where you want it and all the air bubbles worked out add 1 ply of dry 7781 cut along the selvage edge (not a bias cut) and lay the selvage edge of the dry 7781 play right up to the vinyl tape. One trick is to put the selvage fiber in a little tension to pull it straight (without waves) and neatly butted up to the vinyl tape - use your finger to hold one end fixed and then "pull" along the selvage every 12" or so to create a string-straight selvage. Once it is neatly along the vinyl edge use a hair dryer and 1" cheapo paint paint brush to stipple the 7781 to pull as much epoxy as you can from the BID plys below. Once you've wet out the 7781 add a little epoxy to surface of the 7781 to ensure it is wet out. I don't like peel ply here for a couple of reasons. Careful with the hairdryer as you don't want to cook the acrylic.

** Someone else here can tell you how many ply layup (N) this needs to be for an RV.

I (obviously) like glass work and have built 5-6 EZ canopies and a couple of Glasair III windscreens using this method. It takes me longer to explain it than actually do it :)
 
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Thanks Deek - you are way above me. I am going to mimic the Orndorff video where he puts 12-18" pieces of 2 inch tape on dry (after wetting the site) and then stipples resin into it. He said he used 4 layers. He also said he cut the edge (selvedge?) off the tape first? And, he used peel ply at the end.
 
Thanks Deek - you are way above me. I am going to mimic the Orndorff video where he puts 12-18" pieces of 2 inch tape on dry (after wetting the site) and then stipples resin into it. He said he used 4 layers. He also said he cut the edge (selvedge?) off the tape first? And, he used peel ply at the end.

If the tape you're using is at 90* then definitely cut the selvage off. If the tape is a 45* bias (rare, but it's available) then I wouldn't cut the selvage off or the 2" tape will become 1/2" wide and twice as long :D Everyone fights glass for while until you learn a few tricks and then it's EZ. I'm very fearful of riveting on the 14 having never riveted anything except my engine baffles - and they look like they were done by a blind carpenter.

deek
 
Everyone fights glass for while until you learn a few tricks and then it's EZ. I'm very fearful of riveting on the 14 having never riveted anything except my engine baffles - and they look like they were done by a blind carpenter.
Thats funny - riveting is just so easy and second nature now. I rivet way better than my A&P! I'm totally fearful about this windscreen fairing but I have to get it done. As soon as it is, we are ready to mount the wings and drill the rear spars.

Don't fear the rivets!
 
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