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Skyview vs. G3X Decision

My only concern is bang for the buck. Plain and simple, which system will do the most of what I want for the least money. I originally bought and installed Dynon servos and pitot with every intention of going full Dynon. However, they missed every deadline they promised on XM, radios, auto pilot etc while Garmin has put out a new nav/comm, a new comm, a fully integrated autopilot, new servos, new flight deck autopilot controller, new remote adsb, new adahars etc....all THIS YEAR.

A year of Garmin G3X updates costs less than a tank of fuel in my truck so that doesn't scare me. I took a loss when I pulled the Dynon gear out to replace it with Garmin. I do have a D6 as a backup to the G3X and whether you're talking about connector quality, manual quality or support....the Garmin is on a completely different level. Pick up a phone and in 30 seconds you have a Garmin engineer on the phone. Send g3xpert an email and its answered remarkably fast. Several of them roam these boards answering questions as well. Not just sales questions, all questions. That is commitment to experimental in my book.

Clearly, I don't have a problem with Dynon as I have some in my panel but I do believe they should be significantly cheaper since they have significantly less capability. Even prior to G's price drop a full system from both manufacturers were just not very far apart and the Garmin already has far more capability with far more engineering muscle pushing its capabilities further still. In a pure VFR plane there is nothing wrong with Dynon in my mind, but if it costs as much as a system with far more capability and a much larger company backing it....

There is a YouTube video of a guy with a Dynon next to a G3X. It's worth watching. http://youtu.be/j0Si6OU0640
 
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DYNON in my Panel

Many here seem to have a much different view than myself so, I will probably catch some flack but, here it is… I just pulled the trigger on a full Skyview system (dual screens and everything else they have) knowing about Garmin and what is being offered. I purchased a GNR 225 and a PAR 100EX for Radios. Why? Well, I think Garmin is only here because of Dynon, GTR and Advanced. I am going to support the folks that have worked to support us and not the Gorilla in the room. I will buy Garmin when there is no better choice but, that’s the deal with Gamin, they eliminate choice. I do not dislike Garmin but, I want to have a choice the next time I build out a panel and Garmin likes to be the only game and charge big $ so, let’s not let them kill off our vendors that have been working hard to provide us with better products for less $.

EXACTLY why I installed a dual SKYVIEW system in my panel.

Now that the experimental aircraft market is outpacing the certificated airplane market Garmin jumps in with both feet. They are going to try and eliminate the competition then bring the prices to their range. I will continue to sponsor the guys that worked with us from the beginning creating the market. NOT the guys that want to profit from the small companies marketing genius and innovations.

There is a YouTube video of a guy with a Dynon next to a G3X. It's worth watching. http://youtu.be/j0Si6OU0640

I don't know about you but doing acrobatics based solely on instruments (glass or steam) is dumb. Know your systems limitations and don't exceed it. There is a saying that goes: "You are free to choose but you are not free from the consequences of your choices." :cool:
 
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Don't forget to consider the cost of data updates.

Excellent point...
I have dual SkyViews and a Garmin 796 moving map in the center, so can reasonably comment on both.
N65RW%20Panel.jpg

Both systems have extensive navigation/display abilities. My Garmin is my "Go-to" device for navigation because of its simple interface... but keeping those databases updated is REALLY expensive... I paid $2499 for the Garmin unit, but just shelled out $500 to update the databases recently. On the other hand, ALL SkyView updates are FREE and the units are VERY well supported by their tech support folks who can usually be contacted on the first attempt.
(We have 60 RV guys in our group, and all who use Dynon equipment speak very highly of Dynon Tech support).
Even if you're mission is VFR, I would hesitate operating around any Class B airspace these days without updated nav information. Which means you'll be shelling out a LOT of $$$ to keep your Garmin system updated.
The ADS-B features provided by Dynon's SkyView provide free real-time traffic alerts and will soon have free weather mapping, while my Garmin requires an XM subscription of $40/month for the same info.
My advice: Give Garmin a little time to get established & work out the bugs in their system before jumping to the latest and greatest gadget.... And be sure to talk to someone who actually USES the equipment. For me, the cost of constantly updating Garmin databases would be a deal-breaker.
 
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Skyview Panel

RSWALDEN: My panel layout looks a lot like yours down to the Infinity stick grips. Except I have an AERA instead of a 796 and few extra "gadgets" for IFR flying.

f8e8.jpg


:cool:
 
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I don't know about you but doing acrobatics based solely on instruments (glass or steam) is dumb.

I've been a huge fan of Dynon Skyview and have been seriously considering installing it in my RV-7 when the time comes. However, its inability to maintain accuracy through an unusual attitude has me VERY concerned.

What about unusual attitude recovery in IMC? If you ever find yourself in an unusual attitude in the clouds you will have to recover using an instrument that may or may not display accurate information.

As a commercial FAR Part 135.297 IFR Captain I have to recover from an unusual attitude based solely on the instruments during every checkride. You have to trust your instruments. You have to be ABLE to trust your instruments. Your life and those of your passengers depend on it.
 
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Unusual Attitude

I've been a huge fan of Dynon Skyview and have been seriously considering installing it in my RV-7 when the time comes. However, its inability to maintain accuracy through an unusual attitude has me VERY concerned.

What about unusual attitude recovery in IMC? If you ever find yourself in an unusual attitude in the clouds you will have to recover using an instrument that may or may not display accurate information.

As a commercial FAR Part 135.297 IFR Captain I have to recover from an unusual attitude based solely on the instruments during every checkride. You have to trust your instruments. You have to be ABLE to trust your instruments. Your life and those of your passengers depend on it.

Recovering from an unusual attitude is very different from acrobatic maneuvers. The video did not show unusual attitude recovery but full acrobatic maneuvers. Most steam gauges will tumble (grossly inaccurate for a long time) in acrobatic maneuvers but not in unusual attitudes. I did my BFR (unusual attitude recovery under the hood) with no problem. :cool:
 
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DATABASE COST

As a Skyview user I must say that I've been and still am thinking of going with a new G3X set up but the latest from Bob ( but just shelled out $500 to update the databases recently) sure gave me a reason to take a pause and re-think the whole thing...

I never thought that the Garmin's updates were so expensive...:eek:

Here in Canada, a good substitute is PocketFMS and with a cost of e119 Euro a year for a full database including obstacles it is a no brainer...I don't think it is available with the Garmins but I could be wrong....

Now back to planning and waiting for Dynon to come up with the IFR upgrade I've been waiting for...Dynon are you listening????;)

Bruno
 
Dynon is like the heart and soul of experimental aviation. They are innovators, inventors, and careful testers. Like many of you, I buy their products because they are superior, and I continue to support them because they are a small company of good guys who aren't charging big bucks every 28 days for updates (Dynon's database updates in the US are FREE...that adds up over time!)

By the way, I know first hand about expensive Garmin updates. I also have a GTN 650 and pay $185 per month--just for the nav database. Yikes! It's like buying a printer and then spending painfully large amounts of money on ink cartridges.
 
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By the way, I know first hand about expensive Garmin updates. I also have a GTN 650 and pay $185 per month--just for the nav database.

Dynon user here as well. Bought a flying 7A, so really didn't have a say in the matter, but I've really come to enjoy the Skyview. I certainly appreciate the products from Garmin - used to fly a g1000 quite a bit - and understand their updates can be expensive, but surely this is a typo..? I believe I pay around $350/year for my 430.
 
Pilot Pack pricing (HERE) shows I can keep my g3x up to date for as low as $8/month. The most I could possibly spend would be $40 a month if I want full Jeppesen, but the $20 month bundle looks pretty inclusive to me.

Does the Skyview database contain full Jeppesen, all the safe taxi etc in it or is the "free" update the same thing as Garmin's $99 a year ($8 a month) update for the g3x? Therein lies the real confusion on my end in this never ending debate. Lots of people throw huge Garmin numbers out there to compare to Dynon's "free" updates but are we comparing apples to apples? Most of the time they are comparing certified full monty packages to experimental basic. Does the Dynon free downloads have full Jeppeson, safe taxi, airport directory and flight charts like the $40 a month Garmin or is it the same as the Garmin $8 a month package? I really don't know.

Two separate manufacturers very nearly convinced me to buy their systems based on being "cheaper than Garmin", but when I pulled out the calculator and really added it up...the savings just were not there. In the end I went with Garmin, but I'm certainly not loyal to them. I wanted IFR capability and they were the cheapest option when I put it all together.

I can bundle my GTN650 and G3X data together with full IFR for about $70/month if I want the full monty. Sure, that's more than "free"....but the free isn't certified and IFR capable either. If all I wanted was VFR everything (and in the beginning that's all I will want), the Garmin Lite Bundle is $40/month for full updates of the G3X and a GTN650. If you go with a month to month ala carte full IFR package it can certainly add up to the $185/mo quoted a few posts up but why would anyone do that?
 
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I can bundle my GTN650 and G3X data together with full IFR for about $70/month if I want the full monty. Sure, that's more than "free"....but the free isn't certified and IFR capable either.

You're right, there is a lot of confusion. The Dynon 'free' is only the aviation/nav and obstacle data. No charts - approach or safetaxi - on the Dynon. So yes, not really an apples to apples comparing the free Dynon to the 'high cost' Garmin.

However, there is nothing certified about the G3X charts or no. This topic continually seems to get kicked around - pitot/static/transponder IFR cert vs. required nav equipment to complete IFR flight. The only certified equipment comes from the 650/430 and a few others allowing /G filing (waas offering some flexibility in filing - alternates, etc).

I've mentioned in a previous thread that Dynon talks about offering charts/plates (maybe just plates...?). Honestly, my only beef with my Dynon setup (bought plane flying) is that the Dynon map cannot overlay data from the 430. Other than that, I pay to update the 430 (I believe $325/yr) and the iFly ($100/yr) - and couldn't be much happier with the SA offered by this setup. Excuse the crappy pic, but you can see below:

cd8957b977a7b9ad8d4c23d3b582ea02.jpg


I'm approaching the LOM on a practice ILS approach - plate on the iFly on the left, Dynon map middle (can't make out plane icon approaching LOM, but can see the airport), and 430 right lower showing hold in lieu of proc turn. 430 and iFly look different because 430 is track up, iFly north up.

As I said the only thing I really would like is for the 430 course data to be able to be displayed on the Dynon map. Now, if I had my ultimate wish?? Give me an iPad mini that is sunlight readable to replace the iFly. Pop it out of the panel to do planning with Wing X, pop it back in and let the 430 and Dynon map read the route.... oh man, that would be too nice.

In the end the SA offered by all this equipment is amazing to me every time I fly. Not to start a battle, but it also makes me glad I learned on steam gauges with VORs, RMIs, ADFs, OBSs, HSIs.
 
Recovering from an unusual attitude is very different from acrobatic maneuvers. The video did not show unusual attitude recovery but full acrobatic maneuvers. Most steam gauges will tumble (grossly inaccurate for a long time) in acrobatic maneuvers but not in unusual attitudes. I did my BFR (unusual attitude recovery under the hood) with no problem. :cool:

You are really using a false logic here. What is an unusual attitude? Aerobatics for sure if it's outside the normal attitudes.

If you can't trust your ADI during acro, how can you trust it in the clouds, disoriented and probably doing inadvertent aerobatics. Poor time to find out it tumbles too easily.

Just sayin
 
Acrobatic Capable Instruments

You are really using a false logic here. What is an unusual attitude? Aerobatics for sure if it's outside the normal attitudes.

Are you saying that you should only fly in IMC/IFR if your aircraft has acrobatic capable instruments? If so, the majority of certificated IFR capable aircraft should not be flying in IMC.

I believe you are using false logic by comparing apples to oranges. Just saying.

:cool:

I just realized you are part of acrobatic team (TeamDynamix). Your norm is different than the majority of GA pilots/aircraft. Now I understand your point of view.
 
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Are you saying that you should only fly in IMC/IFR if your aircraft has acrobatic capable instruments? If so, the majority of certificated IFR capable aircraft should not be flying in IMC.

I believe you are using false logic by comparing apples to oranges. Just saying.

:cool:

I just realized you are part of acrobatic team (TeamDynamix). Your norm is different than the majority of GA pilots/aircraft. Now I understand your point of view.

A spinning gyro has physical limitations that force such behavior. Certainly not ideal, but unavoidable. Glass panels do not have that limitation, so for me spending that kind of money....I want it to remain sane regardless of how unusual the attitude gets. The point of going next generation for me is exceeding 1st generation standards. Does the GRT or AFS get wonky like that?
 
In all the years I have been running my GRT, it NEVER has even once.
I suspect I put the GRT AHARS through a lot more than the average RV pilot.
Weekely multi turn spins, G's, lots of 360 turns, lots of up and down, down and up. Neg, Pos,. And again, not ONCE has it ever shown less than completely accurate. Its absolutely amazing.
 
A spinning gyro has physical limitations that force such behavior. Certainly not ideal, but unavoidable. Glass panels do not have that limitation, so for me spending that kind of money....I want it to remain sane regardless of how unusual the attitude gets. The point of going next generation for me is exceeding 1st generation standards. Does the GRT or AFS get wonky like that?

I'll echo what Kahuna said. I have not one time had either my Sport of my HXr ever give me the dreaded red X and I really put my stuff thru the wringer. I NEVER fly acro on the gauges, but I do look inside to check speeds and altitudes all the time and my ADI is always just telling me what's going on outside the windows :)

That in itself gives me the warm fuzzies when I'm in the clouds..
 
Skyview acro problems due to improper installation?

Not positive, but it appears the video of the Skyview vs. G3X was from someone attempting to troubleshoot his improperly installed system. According to this post on the Dynon forums, the mag heading was 5-10 degrees off when stationary on the runway. He later states the GPS inputs weren't connected correctly. In the final post, he states the shop installed the AHRS in the WING :eek:. I don't know the tech specs of their system, but I think you'd risk saturating the AHRS in normal flight, much less acro. Have to wonder if he's confusing the AHRS with the magnetometer...
 
In the final post, he states the shop installed the AHRS in the WING :eek:. I don't know the tech specs of their system, but I think you'd risk saturating the AHRS in normal flight, much less acro. Have to wonder if he's confusing the AHRS with the magnetometer...

Just FYI: the ADAHRS for the Skyview system has the magnetometer built in. The installation data approves mounting the ADAHRS unit in the inboard section of the wing (not that I've ever seen one mounted there but it is possible).
 
Nobody has actually answered the Dynon/acro question,, im guessing the video of the dynon getting wonky is a user install error or a bad unit,, to be sure somebody out there of you guys will go fly some acro and report back on the dynon,, were going with the 10" skyview system in our 7, if we can get it flying in the next month i'll report back :)
 
I have been flying my dual ADAHRS & Skyviews for over two years and will say any problem with the display not keeping up with a gyrating airplane is a non-issue. Planned to find exactly what manuvers were the worst today but got weathered out. Maybe Monday.
Sometimes when doing a couple full deflection aileron rolls I notice about 15 degrees lag at rollout but in the time that it takes to look to see exactly what it is doing, it has caught up. A slower roll does not produce this. Have not noticed anything odd in a loop but am always looking out the window.
If you find yourself in an unanticipated unusual attitude in the clouds and your Skyview is not keeping up, just center the stick for a second or so and let the airplane calm down.
 
I do like the Garmin gear, I have a GTN750, but to say that the G3X is way better than Skyview??not true at all.

In fact as far as product quality goes and warranty and tech support, Garmin are not in the race. You should see some of the certified problems and when you have a brand new unit to be fixed under warranty they send you a 5 year old service exchange unit back and not an option for yours to be returned. Or certainly not down here anyway.

Now would you like an opinion on a topic I am perfectly qualified to discuss? The EMS on the Garmin is inferior to many others in the certified and experimental world. Am I going to waste days posting all the ins and outs and debating the hundreds of points that could be raised? No. But when you really know what you are looking at it is easy to see why.

Dynon are not the market leader by a huge margin by mistake.

I am lucky I can afford to have whatever I want in the RV10, I could have G600 or whatever Garmin have to sell, or Avidyne, Aspen?.the list goes on, but the value is made up over lots of things not just a perceived "certified heritage" being a higher quality product. Just look at the Aspen drama's a few years ago?..damned outright dangerous in certain situations and yet it was certified. Confusing certified with superior is a foolish assumption.
 
I do like the Garmin gear, I have a GTN750, but to say that the G3X is way better than Skyview??not true at all.

. . . . .Confusing certified with superior is a foolish assumption.

Completely agree with David on this. Having to spend 3x or 4x the price for certified equipment over the past 15 years hasn't proven to be "better" than the non-certified products that we use in the Experimental world. Actually some of the non-certifified have proven to be better than the certified , for me anyway. I'm not in to bashing one company or another, Choosing between the two system is a very hard choice.... heck choosing from the many systems out there today is a hard choice, Dynon, Garmin , Advanced Flight systems, GRT, they are all good and way better than we had 10 years ago. I believe anyone can pick a brand and pick it apart, but at the end the day you have to pick based on the research that you've done and what makes you comfortable. Hope you choose wisely ;)
 
I prefer the G3x, my service dealings with Garmin have been nothing but excellent even when my problem was not a Garmin issue they fixed it anyway at no charge. They have always been prompt and courteous. The unit is top quality and has all the features I wanted and needed and then some.

You really need to see, play with and compare both systems as well as spend a couple of days reading all the posts on this forum and others about both systems bearing in mind your needs, wants, and finances relative to your project. While searching old posts is time consuming and tedious it will give you an idea of the strengths and weaknesses of each system (relative to your needs)

An objective opinion from an owner (or aficionado) of one system or another is often difficult (but not impossible) to obtain, especially when comparing to a competitor. There are trolls out there that spout opinions about that which they do not know and some manufacturers have been suspected of planting posts through friends of the company. There was even an instance, years ago, where the owner of MGL Avionics caught an employee of a competitor dissing his products right here on the VAF forums.:(

Do your homework, treat all posts as opinions, indulge in healthy skepticism and eventually you will make the correct choice for your needs.

In the interest of full disclosure::D
I am not from Spain
I did not just join yesterday
I do not and never have worked for Garmin, been a Beta tester or anything other than a customer
 
I've installed Dynon and Garmin in my panel and spent years as an R&D electronics engineer designing and destroying electronics in autos and then the defense industry. I ran and connected every wire to my Dynon and Garmin boxes and feel fairly qualified to voice an opinion here.

I couldn't disagree with our Auzzy RV10 contributor more. The Garmin gear I installed was superior in every way to the Dynon I installed alongside it. The Garmin magnetometer is aerospace quality while the Dynon next to it seemed like a bench built test box in comparison. The connectors and box build of the Garmin are far superior to the Dynon. Customer service was exemplary in that a phone call had an engineer on the phone quickly with very wide service hour windows. An email to g3xpert is answered in minutes, even on weekends. The Garmin manuals are so far beyond the Dynon pamphlets, they are not in the same discussion.

I dealt with Garmin's warranty dept on an aera 510 that locked up when I was updating the software. My own fault, it fell off my desk while I was uploading the software and unplugged during the upload. It was out of warranty and my own fault yet Garmin replaced it anyway.

It took Dynon years to figure out they had a heated pitot that didn't work right (and denied the issue the entire time despite users in here giving very detailed descriptions of the problem) and though they have now admitted the problem...they still haven't fixed it. They were "working hard" on delivering XM to Skyview for equally long and never did figure it out. Dynon builds good experimental VFR equipment with some pretty cool features but to say Dynon is beating Garmin in quality or market share is inaccurate at best.
 
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I'd like to know Milt's and Colo's secret to get repairs from Garmin at no charge. That just doesn't seem to happen with RV owners that I know. As for the manuals, not being an aerospace engineer, I prefer the Dynon manuals to the Garmins for getting the information across in an easier to understand format.

Full disclosure: I have paid, in just about equal amounts, for all Garmin and Dynon equipment in my RV. A very small point of reference...when asked to contribute any small items to be used at our field's annual RV Fly In Charity Raffles, Dynon was the company that responded.

Mark
 
I looked at both Garmin and Dynon...and went with the GRT Horizon HXr.

It's been six months. I haven't regretted my decision. The danged thing amazes me on virtually every flight.

Just another data point in the on-going battle of the EFIS's...
 
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I'd like to know Milt's and Colo's secret to get repairs from Garmin at no charge.

I don't know about Colo but I just called and asked, The G3Xpert took care of the problem immediately.

...and went with the GRT Horizon HXr.

It's been six months. I haven't regretted my decision.

I have never flown behind a GRT but everyone I know really likes them as you do yours.

Based on the input from friends, features, and overall reputation I would have gone with GRT had I not installed a G3X.
 
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I don't know about Colo but I just called and asked, The G3Xpert took care of the problem immediately.



I have never flown behind a GRT but everyone I know really likes them as you do yours.

Based on the input from friends, features, and overall reputation I would have gone with GRT had I not installed a G3X.

I had the same experience. As in all things where I'm asking for something that I don't really deserve....I asked...VERY nicely. No indignation or complaining about my inconvenience...I simply asked and they delivered. Perhaps I caught them on a good day.

I also have several very respected and experienced friends with GRT and they all love them. Especially the upgrade options in the the same panel hole. That is one thing about my Garmin panel that irritates me a bit. The new generation of touch wiz bang doesn't fit in the same hole as my system. Then again, I'm so happy with the system as it sits...not sure I would touch it even if it were available.

Ok....yeah I would.
 
I read all these comments with interest as I contemplate adding some glass wizbang to the panel as well. Conclusions?

Asking the question in a lot of cases seems like asking someone if they'd really prefer someone else's child over their own. Very few have much if any flying behind more than one brand of system (at least in comparable generations equipment where generations have a life-cycle of maybe 18 months). So its hard to get unbiased opinions not because the posters aren't trying to be unbiased but because they know what they know. Get a Bonanza Driver and a Mooney driver to tell you which is better and you get the same dynamic.

My take is the stuff is all based on just about the same if not in may cases the exact same technology foundation and, being largely software driven, any feature advantage or lead is likely temporary at best. The basic data base all comes from the same sources and such as well.

So for me I have to think about life cycle costs - that includes updates as well as whatever factor I place on my own ability to guess who will be around in the 5 (10?) years I expect to be flying behind whatever I put in. Don't laugh I just upgraded the software in my Garmin 196 that I bought 12 years ago and its doing the job I need it for quite fine thank you.

I'm watching the open source movement as well. Having to spend big bucks for a "so last generation" IFR certified GPS makes me want to go cheap on the basics that shouldn't cost so much in the first place other than the fact they say airplane on them and serve a small, very litigious segment of society. The basic hardware enjoys great economy of scale that isn't reflected in the avionics market.

So which one would I buy? I dunno - get a dart board, make your choice, and don't look back. Each has its valid reasons to claim superiority. Compared to flying behind a single NAVCOM they are all light years ahead and make flying safer and easier as long as you don't get fixated on the video game in front of you and keep your head on a swivel.

Not much help I'm afraid but isn't it nice to know there really aren't any bad choices but at least 3 or 4 very good ones on the market?
 
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Specifics?

Now would you like an opinion on a topic I am perfectly qualified to discuss? The EMS on the Garmin is inferior to many others in the certified and experimental world. Am I going to waste days posting all the ins and outs and debating the hundreds of points that could be raised? No.

Why not? It may be a waste of time for you to post specifics, but not for someone like me who is at the stage in his build where a decision needs to be made on avionics. I and perhaps others could benefit from your experience with the equipment. What is it about the Garmin ems that makes it inferior? No offense intended, but specific issues, observations, what features you like or dislike and why are more beneficial than a personal assertion of credentials. A credentialed opinion certainly counts, but absent specifics what opportunity is there for anyone else to decide for themselves if a particular issue or observation is a deal breaker or not?

I have spent a great deal of time trying to decide on which way to go and based on what I intend to use the airplane for, what I can afford, and what?s currently available, I have narrowed my choices down to an IFR capable panel using either Dynon Skyview or Garmin G3x. At Oshkosh I spoke to reps from both companies, talked to vendors, attended forums, attended Dynons?s 3 hour hands on class, talked to other builders and owners, and looked at nearly every RV I could find. Thanks to Stein, Gulf Coast Avionics and other vendors, I had the chance to see both systems literally side by side. I?ve also previewed installation manuals and pilot user guides over the past year for both systems, and in the near future before I make my purchase, hope to fly in aircraft that have one or the other of both systems to help me compare.

My conclusions thus far are that both systems have many desirable features in common but sometimes very different ways of accessing various modes or options. For example, Dynon?s autopilot has two general control schemes: simple and expert, each with different menus and capabilities. In simple, flying a specific heading is not an available autopilot roll function. The autopilot instead will track either a pilot selectable course or navigation track and automatically correct for wind. Great for VFR, but only partially useful in an IFR operation where ATC may assign you a heading and expects you to do just that. Dynon does provide however a heading select mode in the autopilot?s expert mode. Is this a deal breaker? Probably not. To someone else, it may be just one more added feature that Dynon offers, but to me it is a nuance that seems unnecessary.

Similar to a previous observation, Dynon?s installation manual is very well written and easy to follow. Coupled with their service and their obvious commitment to the experimental market, it?s easy to understand why so many builders would prefer them. In a side by side comparison though at one of the vendor's booth at Oshkosh, the Garmin display unit I looked at seemed to me to have a higher screen resolution than the Skyview, though not necessarily a brighter picture. Until I have the chance to fly with both of them in someone else?s airplane in direct sunlight, I really won?t know how significant the difference is.

I've enjoyed this thread, but please, as valuable as well qualified opinions are, specifics are even better.

J. Baker
RV8 Finishing
 
I am by no means an expert, but here is some of the 'technology' comparisons.
First caveat: I know little about the G3X. I personal do not like paying database fees, nor do I like being locked into one manufacturer (Garmin stuff tends to only talk to other Garmin stuff, e.g., ADSB-in), so I have never bothered to look any further at the G3X.
All these EFIS units use micro-accelerometers to measure accelerations in three dimensions, then solve Newton's equation to find position. The trick is how they correct for small errors, which otherwise would result in long term (minutes) drift. (note mechanical AI's have the same problem, and use a plumb bob to fix long term drift). These are closely held secrets. Some vendors may use gps data for drift correction. GRT explicitly says it does not. AFS and GRT use the earth's magnetic field vector. Dynon uses, in addition, airspeed. I originally considered this unacceptable for ifr (pitot blockage results in loss of AI). However, their software now will revert to gps data if airspeed is lost, so I personaly think that is okay, although I understand a partial pitot blockage can still cause some problems. The Dynon approach does result in fast boot up times - important if the gyro ever does 'tumble'.
The GRT can control Trio, TruTrak, or their own autopilot. Dynon, just their own, I think.
 
The GRT can control Trio, TruTrak, or their own autopilot. Dynon, just their own, I think.

The serial output of the Skyview can control the Trio autopilot.
I have a switch and can select either Skyview (serial data) or GTN 650 (ARINC data) to my Trio Pro Pilot.

Fin
9A
 
Clarification

The serial output of the Skyview can control the Trio autopilot.
I have a switch and can select either Skyview (serial data) or GTN 650 (ARINC data) to my Trio Pro Pilot.

Fin
9A

The Dynon can offer limited (serial only) control of the Trio.
The GRT, with its ARINC output, can increase the usefulness of the Trio by enabling fully coupled ILS approaches, as well as RNAV(GPS).

The bottom line here is that everyone has an opinion, and everyone (me too) thinks they made the best choice. The information is out there (start with the manufacturer's web pages) but it does take a lot of homework to make an informed decision. But it's time well-invested.
 
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I read all these comments with interest as I contemplate adding some glass wizbang to the panel as well. Conclusions?

Asking the question in a lot of cases seems like asking someone if they'd really prefer someone else's child over their own. Very few have much if any flying behind more than one brand of system (at least in comparable generations equipment where generations have a life-cycle of maybe 18 months). So its hard to get unbiased opinions not because the posters aren't trying to be unbiased but because they know what they know. Get a Bonanza Driver and a Mooney driver to tell you which is better and you get the same dynamic.

My take is the stuff is all based on just about the same if not in may cases the exact same technology foundation and, being largely software driven, any feature advantage or lead is likely temporary at best. The basic data base all comes from the same sources and such as well.

So for me I have to think about life cycle costs - that includes updates as well as whatever factor I place on my own ability to guess who will be around in the 5 (10?) years I expect to be flying behind whatever I put in. Don't laugh I just upgraded the software in my Garmin 196 that I bought 12 years ago and its doing the job I need it for quite fine thank you.

I'm watching the open source movement as well. Having to spend big bucks for a "so last generation" IFR certified GPS makes me want to go cheap on the basics that shouldn't cost so much in the first place other than the fact they say airplane on them and serve a small, very litigious segment of society. The basic hardware enjoys great economy of scale that isn't reflected in the avionics market.

So which one would I buy? I dunno - get a dart board, make your choice, and don't look back. Each has its valid reasons to claim superiority. Compared to flying behind a single NAVCOM they are all light years ahead and make flying safer and easier as long as you don't get fixated on the video game in front of you and keep your head on a swivel.

Not much help I'm afraid but isn't it nice to know there really aren't any bad choices but at least 3 or 4 very good ones on the market?

Well said Richard! These are basically religious discussions and most everyone prefers what they chose.

I chose Garmin and am happy I waited for the G3X Touch.

Someone mentioned the install manual differences... On one hand, version M is a daunting 708 pages long, but on the other hand, it contains extremely detailed info on the install. Describing wiring 3 ways (full plug pinouts, pinouts broken out into smaller groups and wiring diagrams). They even describe various wiring techniques. Also, they include such exact dimensions for panel cutouts that I used them for CNC cutting my panel and it came out perfect. Not so for the Mini-B manual. Horrors, I had to measure it myself. :)
 
...

In a side by side comparison though at one of the vendor's booth at Oshkosh, the Garmin display unit I looked at seemed to me to have a higher screen resolution than the Skyview, though not necessarily a brighter picture.

...

J. Baker
RV8 Finishing

You're right regarding the screen resolution:

SV-D1000: 1024 x 600 (614,400 pixels)
G3X Touch: 1280 x 768 (983,040 pixels)
 
I currently have the 10" SkyView (un-touch) and a GDU375 in my plane. I didnt want to put all my eggs in one basket and liked features from both companies. I also thought they were essentially neck and neck with their product offerings and price. With about 85 hrs on the HOBBS, I personally like my SkyView quite a bit better than the GDU375, the resolution just seems better on the SkyView.

With that being said...I looked at both new offerings at OSH and I would hands down go with Garmin now. The G3X touch has distanced itself in my opinion from the SkyView touch. Whereas the SV seems like the same unit with added touchscreen capability, the G3X touch seems like a whole new product and not just because of the new landscape format. The interface on the Garmin is far superior and the screen looks nicer in general.

I certainly dont want to put Dynon down and I hate to see them getting bullied by Garmin (they've treated me well and I really like my SV), but they are falling behind in my estimation...just my .02. It kills me they didnt come out with this one year earlier.
 
With that being said...I looked at both new offerings at OSH and I would hands down go with Garmin now. The G3X touch has distanced itself in my opinion from the SkyView touch. Whereas the SV seems like the same unit with added touchscreen capability, the G3X touch seems like a whole new product and not just because of the new landscape format. The interface on the Garmin is far superior and the screen looks nicer in general.

My exact thoughts as well. I love my SV, but man oh man I couldn't stop drooling on the G3X touch at Stein's booth last month. Seeing them side by side is telling. It is really just a wonderful system. Yes they are the only certified GPS game in town (except for Avidyne, but after playing with that, Garmin has nothing to fear), but I do not get wrapped up in the Garmin gorilla band wagon. I spent quite a bit of time in the Team X tent (more drooling) and couldn't have been treated better.

I take nothing away from any other manufacturer, but if my panel was being started tomorrow, I would have NO DOUBT what system I'd be installing.
 
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