What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

Buying a RV-12 used

NinerBikes

Well Known Member
Trying to determine fair market value for a buyer of a used RV-12.

Assume it has Dynon D1000 Touch, ADS-B 2020, wheel pants, and paint. 100 to 200 hrs and built by a commercial pilot, or retired AF pilot, not an AP.

2014 or newer.

What is one worth, with or without Auto pilot?

What is full paint worth on a used plane, vs primer gray or raw green fiberglass for cowling and wheel pants on a raw aluminum bird?

I am asking what you would pay for it, not the sellers asking price.
 
Last edited:
Autopilot, lights, full interior?

Good points.

No 2 axis auto pilot.

with lights, since it's so rare to see one for sale without lights.

with and without interior.


The last 2 RV-12s I've seen sold, one in CA, one in Oregon, were fully painted birds, Loaded, full interior, full paint, 2 axis AP, ADS-B out, GTR200 Skyvies D1000 touch, 2016

one with 75 hrs did sell for $60000, in a month.

The other was same build....61 hours, retired air force guy, listed about 6 or 7 weeks, sold for $57000. Both birds sold in July, prime flying time.
 
Last edited:
NinerBikes,

I?m not at all sure it matters if it was built by a retired commercial pilot or an A/P. I have seen excellent quality builds by ?first timers? who have a strong mechanical aptitude and strive for safety, quality and excellence. On the other hand, I have witnessed A/P builds that I would never take a chance on riding in. Further, I have seen several factory builds (prior to Van?s taking over from Synergy), that would scare you to death.

In order to determine a value, the airplane has to be looked at very closely. In my opinion, quality and care of construction has a lot to do with the resale value. You can?t determine that based on who built it, however qualified they might seem.

As for paint, a good professional paint job will cost you close to $10K here in SoCal. You probably know that already. While one can?t expect to recover that entire cost, I would expect to pay a significant amount more over a bare metal and fiberglass plane.

Alex
 
NinerBikes,

I’m not at all sure it matters if it was built by a retired commercial pilot or an A/P. I have seen excellent quality builds by ‘first timers’ who have a strong mechanical aptitude and strive for safety, quality and excellence. On the other hand, I have witnessed A/P builds that I would never take a chance on riding in. Further, I have seen several factory builds (prior to Van’s taking over from Synergy), that would scare you to death.

In order to determine a value, the airplane has to be looked at very closely. In my opinion, quality and care of construction has a lot to do with the resale value. You can’t determine that based on who built it, however qualified they might seem.

As for paint, a good professional paint job will cost you close to $10K here in SoCal. You probably know that already. While one can’t expect to recover that entire cost, I would expect to pay a significant amount more over a bare metal and fiberglass plane.

Alex
A 2 to 4 year old paint job is probably worth how much more, in your opinion... significant is somewhat vague.

Or look at it the other way, how much less is bare metal and fiberglass worth vs 3 to 5 year old paint?
 
Last edited:
An airplane, like everything else, is worth what someone is willing to pay. Supply and demand. Expensive toy ? yes, but hopefully, if you don?t bend it, you can recoup a significant amount of your investment when you?re ready to put down the spoon. The other way to look at this is to amortize the cost over number years of ownership. So, you pay more for a pretty pristine ship with a couple of added bells and whistles?. In the end the added cost is pennies on the dollar.

In my case, I bought a flying RV-12 from the original builder with 48TT four years ago. I did significant work to make the airplane to my liking including extensive SB?s. No big deal. I now have almost 500 hours of pure enjoyment flying this wonderful machine. Almost every hour has been spent with someone sitting in the right seat taking in the view. Most recently, my daughter-in-law has agreed to allow my 10-year-old triplet granddaughters to fly with me. Wow, what an experience. So, I ask myself, what is that worth?

Airplanes retain value unlike a car or a boat. Just do it, have fun, share the enjoyment with others, and when you?re done pass it along to the next custodian.
 
I don't own an RV12, but have been following the market for a while. Big ticket things that affect price to me are:

-Are all SB done? Some are very expensive to pay to have done unless your friend is capable of doing them. I think the horizontal stab SB would cost about $1500 or so to have done.

-Where are the hoses in the 5yr lifecycle on the Rotax? If it needs it now, factor approx. $3K or more to pay to have it done.

-Honestly the hours on the Rotax are less meaningful to me since I've heard so many times that when they are overhauled the internals are very close to new. It still matters but counts less than the hours on a Lycoming when I consider value. Thats just my opinion though.

-Are the logs all there and complete?

-Unpainted to me loses $10K value since I would want paint. Also, goofy paint schemes that only the builder could love lose value since it will be harder to sell later.

With all that in mind, seems the market right now is anywhere between $55 to $65K for the average decent 12 that is current on SB and nothing big to spend $ on.
 
NinerBikes,
Further, I have seen several factory builds (prior to Van?s taking over from Synergy), that would scare you to death.

Alex

Interesting opinion since all the factory built S-LSA RV-12?s were thoroughly inspected by Van?s prior to acceptance. I know some of the first S-LSA 12?s were built in the Philippines and not by Synergy.
 
I don't own an RV12, but have been following the market for a while. Big ticket things that affect price to me are:

-Are all SB done? Some are very expensive to pay to have done unless your friend is capable of doing them. I think the horizontal stab SB would cost about $1500 or so to have done.

-Where are the hoses in the 5yr lifecycle on the Rotax? If it needs it now, factor approx. $3K or more to pay to have it done.

-Honestly the hours on the Rotax are less meaningful to me since I've heard so many times that when they are overhauled the internals are very close to new. It still matters but counts less than the hours on a Lycoming when I consider value. Thats just my opinion though.

-Are the logs all there and complete?

-Unpainted to me loses $10K value since I would want paint. Also, goofy paint schemes that only the builder could love lose value since it will be harder to sell later.

With all that in mind, seems the market right now is anywhere between $55 to $65K for the average decent 12 that is current on SB and nothing big to spend $ on.

Paint would be nice. Probably a lot easier to take care of than polishing aluminum all the time, which eats up a lot of your time? Just wash and wax with paint.

My friend says he'd help me, no problems, better working on planes than working in the yard, just fly him somewhere nice and buy him a nice breakfast as compensation, once its done. He figures it could be done in a day, in the hangar, if we have lights and a big compressor. I'm guessing hand pulling those rivets would be a bugger?
 
Last edited:
Paint would be nice. Probably a lot easier to take care of than polishing aluminum all the time, which eats up a lot of your time? Just wash and wax with paint.

My friend says he'd help me, no problems, better working on planes than working in the yard, just fly him somewhere nice and buy him a nice breakfast as compensation, once its done. He figures it could be done in a day, in the hangar, if we have lights and a big compressor. I'm guessing hand pulling those rivets would be a bugger?

You should be VERY cautious with someone who says they can paint a plane in a day! Best to run, not walk from that. MAYBE you could spray it in one day fully assembled, but paint is ALL about the prep and I promise you it will be more than one day for that.

Larry
 
Last edited:
You should be VERY cautious with someone who says they can paint a plane in a day! Best to run, not walk from that. MAYBE you could spray it in one day fully assembled, but paint is ALL about the prep and I promise you it will be more than one day for that.

Larry

I think he might have been referring to the horizontal stab SB? But from what I have heard, it usually takes about 15hrs to complete. Might have buy the friend a couple of steak and egg breakfasts instead of biscuits and gravy;):D
 
You should be VERY cautious with someone who says they can paint a plane in a day! Best to run, not walk from that. MAYBE you could spray it in one day fully assembled, but paint is ALL about the prep and I promise you it will be more than one day for that.

Larry

Going to try for an unpainted bird, because of this! Also a good experience to learn how to properly drill out old rivets, and install and pull new rivets, without building a whole bird. Have to do the 16 hr class too, so I can do my own inspections.
 
An airplane, like everything else, is worth what someone is willing to pay. Supply and demand. Expensive toy ? yes, but hopefully, if you don?t bend it, you can recoup a significant amount of your investment when you?re ready to put down the spoon. The other way to look at this is to amortize the cost over number years of ownership. So, you pay more for a pretty pristine ship with a couple of added bells and whistles?. In the end the added cost is pennies on the dollar.

In my case, I bought a flying RV-12 from the original builder with 48TT four years ago. I did significant work to make the airplane to my liking including extensive SB?s. No big deal. I now have almost 500 hours of pure enjoyment flying this wonderful machine. Almost every hour has been spent with someone sitting in the right seat taking in the view. Most recently, my daughter-in-law has agreed to allow my 10-year-old triplet granddaughters to fly with me. Wow, what an experience. So, I ask myself, what is that worth?

Airplanes retain value unlike a car or a boat. Just do it, have fun, share the enjoyment with others, and when you?re done pass it along to the next custodian.
Great post . . . and sound advice, Jim.
Thank you.
 
I don't own an RV12, but have been following the market for a while. Big ticket things that affect price to me are:

-Are all SB done? Some are very expensive to pay to have done unless your friend is capable of doing them. I think the horizontal stab SB would cost about $1500 or so to have done.

-Where are the hoses in the 5yr lifecycle on the Rotax? If it needs it now, factor approx. $3K or more to pay to have it done.

-Honestly the hours on the Rotax are less meaningful to me since I've heard so many times that when they are overhauled the internals are very close to new. It still matters but counts less than the hours on a Lycoming when I consider value. Thats just my opinion though.

-Are the logs all there and complete?

-Unpainted to me loses $10K value since I would want paint. Also, goofy paint schemes that only the builder could love lose value since it will be harder to sell later.

With all that in mind, seems the market right now is anywhere between $55 to $65K for the average decent 12 that is current on SB and nothing big to spend $ on.

Thoughts and opinions on the paint scheme on this RV-12 for sale.... why you would or wouldn't buy it or make an offer on it.

I don't think I'd be interested in someone else's name on my RV-12. Nor did I serve in Navy. All IMHO, of course.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I like the custom throttle quadrant a lot. Hopefully, you can remove the pilot?s name without having to repaint. The avionics are a bit different than a typical ELSA RV-12, but it looks well equipped. Is this one E/A-B? The paint scheme wouldn?t be my first choice, but overall, I think the plane looks pretty nice.
 
I like the custom throttle quadrant a lot. Hopefully, you can remove the pilot’s name without having to repaint. The avionics are a bit different than a typical ELSA RV-12, but it looks well equipped. Is this one E/A-B? The paint scheme wouldn’t be my first choice, but overall, I think the plane looks pretty nice.
FAA says E-AB build.
 
Last edited:
If it's registered EAB only builder can perform maint.

According to FAA regs, just confirmed with FAA officials at Oshkosh 2019, if the plane is EAB a new owner will never be able to perform condition inspection unless he is an A&P. Going to the 16 hour "light sport repairman" school only works for ELSA.
 
Ninerbikes. That is a nice 12. I have not served in the military. But I asked a Navy friend once if it would be cheesy of me to buy a plane with a military paint scheme. I would likely have a lot of people ask if I served and would have to sheepishly say “no”. His response was “Don't you support the military?” My reply was a resounding YES! He said when asked the question just say no I didn't serve but support those who do.
 
Last edited:
The RV12 was built in North Texas near Fort Worth. That price is pretty good for all the gear and avionics that comes with it. Especially since it is ADSB compliant. It is an EAB! If everything is in good working order and the logbooks are clean then its worth every penny of 70K. Service bulletins and ADs are not required to be completed on EABs. I would ask if the AD on the elevator was Completed. Also ask if all the rubber parts have been replaced. Every 5 years that needs to be done.
Good Luck.
 
Last edited:
Since it's EAB, a Sport Pilot can't fly it legally. So it's competing with all other EAB's. I would rather spend $70K on an RV4 or 6 than a relatively low performance EAB RV12. To me RV12 registered as EAB reduces value since the market for the RV12 is to those confined to the Sport Pilot license.
 
Last edited:
Since it's EAB, a Sport Pilot can't fly it legally. So it's competing with all other EAB's. I would rather spend $70K on an RV4 or 6 than a relatively low performance EAB RV12. To me RV12 registered as EAB reduces value since the market for the RV12 is to those confined to the Sport Pilot license.

I not sure that is correct. As I understand even if it is E-AB it is still a LSA as long as it meets all the LSA criteria. Not modified to change speeds, addition of a CS prop etc. performed that sets it outside a LSA.
 
Since it's EAB, a Sport Pilot can't fly it legally. So it's competing with all other EAB's. I would rather spend $70K on an RV4 or 6 than a relatively low performance EAB RV12. To me RV12 registered as EAB reduces value since the market for the RV12 is to those confined to the Sport Pilot license.
Sorry, but that is not at all correct. A Sport Pilot, OR a Private or above flying with Sport Pilot privileges (in other words, with a lapsed but not denied medical), can fly anything that meets the limitations of a light sport airplane. 120 knots max cruise at sea level, two seats max, 1320# max gross (unless it's a seaplane), fixed gear, fixed pitch, max stall speed 45 kt. There is NO restriction on whether it needs to be E-LSA, S-LSA, EAB, or produced under a type certificate.

Since it's E-AB, yes, you will need an A&P to sign off on the condition inspection. Like any other Experimental, including E-LSA, anyone can legally perform any maintenance, repairs, or modifications on the plane, without the requirement for an A&P for anything other than the condition inspection. The A&P does not need to have an IA. Whether that helps or hurts the value is in the eye of the buyer.
 
Thanks for the correction Scott. Now that I think about it you are right. I believe Ercoupes and others are able to be flown by Sport Pilots.
 
Seems the orig RV-12 has about 15 to 16 gals usable out of 20 gals

Not true. Vintage RV-12 fuel tank design is 100% usable fuel. You can run it down to the last drop. POH stipulates minimum of 4 gallons for takeoff so tank does not un-port during climb.
 
Not true. Vintage RV-12 fuel tank design is 100% usable fuel. You can run it down to the last drop. POH stipulates minimum of 4 gallons for takeoff so tank does not un-port during climb.

How is that going to help you if you botch a landing at an unfamiliar airport and have to do a go around, with 4 gallons or less of fuel?
 
How is that going to help you if you botch a landing at an unfamiliar airport and have to do a go around, with 4 gallons or less of fuel?

With 4 gallons, it is not a problem. It meets the minimum requirement.

With less than 4 gallons, doing a go around and climbing to pattern altitude it would not be a problem either.

This has been well proven by the operational history of the RV-12 fleet with well over 650 aircraft completed and flown and multiple 10?s of thousands of hours flown with no report of an engine stoppage because of a low fuel level.

The reason for the limitation is that a takeoff, with a long duration extended climb at max angle of attack, could empty the baffled fuel pick-up portion of the fuel tank and starve the engine.

The reason for the generic ?No Take-off? statement is that what the airplane does immediately after take off is an unknown. Adding the limitation accounts for the unknown aspect of the airplanes operations.
 
With 4 gallons, it is not a problem. It meets the minimum requirement.

With less than 4 gallons, doing a go around and climbing to pattern altitude it would not be a problem either.

This has been well proven by the operational history of the RV-12 fleet with well over 650 aircraft completed and flown and multiple 10’s of thousands of hours flown with no report of an engine stoppage because of a low fuel level.

The reason for the limitation is that a takeoff, with a long duration extended climb at max angle of attack, could empty the baffled fuel pick-up portion of the fuel tank and starve the engine.

The reason for the generic “No Take-off” statement is that what the airplane does immediately after take off is an unknown. Adding the limitation accounts for the unknown aspect of the airplanes operations.

For a better understanding, how long is a "long duration" extended climb? Are we talking less than 2 minutes? I usually try to get 600 ft AGL at 75 kts before lowering the angle of attack with the nose down a little bit to make 85 or 90 kt for rest of climb out, in almost all situations.
 
Last edited:
For a better understanding, how long is a "long duration" extended climb? Are we talking less than 2 minutes? I usually try to get 600 ft AGL at 75 kts before lowering the angle of attack with the nose down a little bit to make 85 or 90 mph for rest of climb out, in almost all situations.


from my previous post......
With less than 4 gallons, doing a go around and climbing to pattern altitude it would not be a problem either.
 
Just some rough guesstimate numbers here?. The baffle reservoir at the tank drain I?m guessing might hold ? gallon of fuel. The baffles have small drain holes which equalize fuel level on each side of the baffle. Level attitude on the ground with a few gallons in the tank will completely fill the baffle reservoir and when the nose is pitched up in climb the reservoir will start out full and very slowly drain back into the main volume of the tank. In the meantime you at using 6-7 GPH fuel flow at 100% power in the climb so 0.5 gallon / 7 GPH x 60 min/hr ≈ 4.5 minutes runtime. And 4.5 min at even 500 FPM > 2000 AGL. Returning to level flight will again allow fuel to fill the baffle reservoir to restart the process.
 
Still looking... lots of older planes with D-180's for sale, not moving.

Ideally, I'm looking for a RV-12 with Dynon Skyview Touch or HDX, a Garmin GTR-200 com, a 470 or 472 ADS-B in antenna, (we have a lot of fires with TFR's constantly coming and going from air fire fighting) wheel pants, no paint or only paint on cowling and wheel pants. Probably finished in 2015 or 2016 to get those components. If it's very close to 750 #, that would be great, because I'm 6' 5" and 255 # and passenger could be short and heavy too, so want to stay under that 1320# gross limit.

I guess I am looking for a working plane, not a show plane, with complete service records, everything current, hoses, fuel lines, from a pilot that's ready to cut loose with the monthly and annual costs associated with plane ownership. Plane should be current with SB updates for doublers on landing gear and vertical stab /flap.

I realize this is a mighty tall wish list. The price of paint on a RV-12 adds weight and to the price tag, my mission is somewhat utilitarian, and I like the look of an Ercoupe in a RV-12.

Must be E-LSA.
 
Last edited:
Is it possible to build a RV-12 with full paint, wheel pants, AP, and a complete new Dynon Skyview Touch to 750#'s, or is it more likely to be 770 -775 pound if fully loaded with goodies in the build?
 
Is it possible to build a RV-12 with full paint, wheel pants, AP, and a complete new Dynon Skyview Touch to 750#'s, or is it more likely to be 770 -775 pound if fully loaded with goodies in the build?

My -iS was 756 before paint, 777 after. Two landing lights, autopilot, one G3X Touch screen, Garmin radio, stabilator fairings, no wheel pants, and no interior (yet). The Vans brochure shows ?775 pounds with options?.
 
Your search is over...

Still looking... <snip>

Ideally, I'm looking for a RV-12 with Dynon Skyview Touch, a Garmin GTR-200 com, a 470 or 472 ADS-B in antenna, (we have a lot of fires with TFR's constantly coming and going from air fire fighting) wheel pants, no paint or only paint on cowling and wheel pants. <snip>

I realize this is a mighty tall wish list. Must be E-LSA.

Not a tall list at all... exactly as you described and is available in central Florida now (we'll swap out the installed HDX for a new 10" Touch and lower the price 1k). Give Scott Malcomb a call: 407-697-7027 (cash buyers only)
 
Back
Top