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beringer brake lines fueslage

Imlars

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I have run into much difficulty matching what is in the Beringer install/maintenance manual vice vans install.

I am now trying to route the brake lines back to the drag brace fitting from the master cylinders and I notice the thread pattern for the vans 7/16 pipe coming out of the drag fitting and the Beringer 7/16 fitting do not match thread types. The vans is a fine thread versus coarse for the Beringer fitting.

Anybody else notice this?

Larry
 
I had TS/AS Flightlines do all my lines fittings - they did all the adapters/fittings. If you give them a call, I imagine they can tell you what's needed to make it all work.
 
Larry---the ports on the Matco/Grove/Cleveland master cylinders are 1/8 NPT tapered thread. Beringer uses M10x1.0 Metric parallel thread with a crush washer. THESE ARE NOT INTERCHANGEBLE. The Vans original plastic lines and fitting are not used with the Beringer components!

Tom
 
Roger that.
I have fabricated the Beringer brake lines per the manual and had no issue with the master cylinder. It is the long output hose from the left hand output side back to the original fitings on the drag brace( installed two years ago) that is not compatible with what Beringer sent me. The 7/16 adapter fitting supplied is a coarse thread. The fitting installed is a medium or fine thread. You get one turn and that's it.( mis thread). You can see it pretty easy with the naked eye.

I am gonna call you guys to fix the issue. It is Beringers mistake...again. There have been many I have sent back to them with the help of my French engineer friend. Its a slow process to get resolution.
 
Larry and others, you cant use the Vans Brass adapters in the gear mount with AN style hose ends. The Thread on the brass fitting where the AN nut would screw on is different, AND no male flare. You have to use compatible fittings for the type of hoses you use.

Tom
 
Beringer 2.0

Today I had my French engineer friend call France via an appointment that was set up last week. What we found out is the source document Beringer was using to design the brake line kit for the rv14a was based on section 40 of the manual which indicated larger fittings (4D) than reality(3D) into the gear brace.

The Beringer engineering solution was to omit the fitting in the brace and simply have a longer hose pass through the brace to the caliper. This essentially eliminates a fitting. They are of the opinion that the less the fittings the better.
The new hose will be 132" from cylinders to calipers.

They are in the process of making this change in France.

Bonsoir
Larry
 
beringer brake lines Pilot Side

I used a Dremel with a tungsten bit to enlarge the snap bushing holes. I enlarged the snap bushing carefully with a step drill bit. The result is a 12' ish continuous brake line. Fitting omitted at drag brace. I will add a protective sleeve through drag brace later. Happy to not have that fitting at the brace. It did not make much sense to me or Beringer.

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One piece lines

I used a Dremel with a tungsten bit to enlarge the snap bushing holes. I enlarged the snap bushing carefully with a step drill bit. The result is a 12' ish continuous brake line. Fitting omitted at drag brace. I will add a protective sleeve through drag brace later. Happy to not have that fitting at the brace. It did not make much sense to me or Beringer.

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That's one of the benefits. I also ran one piece lines from the Parking brake valve to the wheels. Beringer also sells a fitting to connect to the Vans reservoir. Not cheap but it works.
 
Its finally coming together. I guess the downside is you have to replace the entire hose for a leak. I kinda doubt this happens in thst hose though!
 
Larry---DEFINITELY do something around the now enlarged hole in the gear brace where you cut out the fitting threads, and ran the hose through the hole. The hose will rub on the brace, and eventually wear through the braid and the hose liner.

Tom
 
Tom,
Yes. It is their design. Fortunately my better half is French and a engineer. She spent countless hours documenting and corresponding with Beringer to figure out where the source documents went wrong etc.

They were surprised at the need for a fitting. They said their aviation products were born from ultra lights where they run much longer brake lines with no fittings. They said a fitting is a point of failure and pressure loss.

Once they had all the correct source documents, they said ,"why the fitting"? Their hose passes through the original opening. It is not enlarged or drilled out in anyway. It simply becomes one long brake line. In their opinion a better design. One they have used extensively on ultralights. So instead of 84 inch line to a fitting at the brace connected to a 36 inch line under the brace. It is just a pass through line now.

I will need to protect the hose with a Rhino hose protector or some product but should be a better design. I will get you the correspondence from Beringer. It is unfortunately in French though.

This design was vetted. We are not sure what Beringer does with the design from here. They began their design off section 40. They had no clue about section 33 or what it entailed. That in essence was where the issues started.

It seems just about everybody using Beringer brakes bought your lines. If I had done this, I would be well down the road. Installed with no issues. Beringer was surpised that the errors were not alerted to them. Instead I bought from them and stuff was not adding up. Their install manual is another issue.....One they say they are addressing as well.

Thanks for looking out for me and the rest of homebuilders! Another level of safety is indispensable. I really appreciate it. We all do. I will get all the info I can to you on this.

Larry
 
Larry,

I think that the reason that Tom is surprised is that we now are an OEM supplier to Beringer for RV14/14A brake hoses. I was personally involved in the design for all the RV14/14A cabin brake hose package configurations. Our standard kit for the RV14A utilizes an AN822-3D elbow fitting in both of those locations. We then run gear leg hoses outside of the fuselage as a separate hose assembly. Whether you purchase the Complete Beringer package (Wheels, Brakes, Cabin components and pre made hoses) from us or from Beringer, the hoses are not one piece through that gear area. They are split into two separate ones. I am certain of this since we now supply the pre-made hoses to Beringer.
I sent you a PM.

Take care,
Steve
 
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I'm surprised they had you route one long line. I purchased my RV14A Beringer kit from their US division in June 2018 and I have the setup that Aircraft Specialty is talking about. The kit came with all the lines (un-measured), fittings, etc. Everything was there, I did battle with the instructions supplied and had several calls with them to get things sorted. Finally all the cabin lines were done, I did decide to buy the Gear Leg Lines from Aircraft Specialty because at that point I was done fiddling with them.
 
I spoke with Beringer at Osh 2018 and decided to place my order through Aircraft Spr
uce. Nothing it is prefabricated. The install/ mainainence manual had some errors in it as well. (Ie fabricating a 20" inch hose where 84" is required) It is through this process my install has evolved, albeit with the help of a French national engineer. (My better half) . This took 4 to 6 months of correspondance and phone calls with enginers in France. Its a long complicated story. The short version is, in the end after reviewing the design they asked, why do you need a fitting anyway"? I am not a fluid dynamics engineer. They explained fittings are a failure point and a pressure loss and that if possible should be ommitted. The brake line can pass through a ton of places, including the drag brace original hole without a fitting.

That is the short short version of this. Minus all the comminication in French. I am just trying to pass on information. After reading the install manual, It was apparent nobody had looked at it to fabricate hose lengths for a 14a. They were not close to correct.

If you bought prefabricated lines you would have no issues.
 
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