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Some DAR questions

Charles in SC

Well Known Member
At what point should a DAR start being involved?
How does one go about getting one?
Are they assigned by the FAA or do I choose one from a list somewhere?
About what do they charge?
Is the fee paid up front or at the end of the services rendered?
Thanks!
 
I suggest start looking 6 months prior to expected completion.
Call your local FSDO. They might send an FAA inspector out for free.
If no, ask the FSDO for a list of local DARs.
Fees are up to the DAR. I paid $700 in 2011, San Francisco area.
If I were a DAR I would ask to be paid up front - avoids the issue of payment if you find lots of issues needing lots of work.
 
At what point should a DAR start being involved? The DAR can not start paperwork until the aircraft is registered. But you might start your search a few weeks in advance.

How does one go about getting one? Search the FAA website. They are listed. Or you may get recommendations from other builders.

Are they assigned by the FAA or do I choose one from a list somewhere? Your local MIDO or FSDO will probably recommend one.

About what do they charge? Prices will vary. My fee is $550 plus travel as an example.

Is the fee paid up front or at the end of the services rendered? Again this will vary. I charge the fee at the first inspection. If the aircraft does not pass, I charge a much smaller fee for coming back. Remember, you are paying for the inspection, not the certificate.
Thanks!
See above.
 
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Dar life

Find a DAR and perhaps you can get a few pre- inspection visits to make sure you are on the right track

Three ways to find one: FSDO,Mido, dar list on this site along with recommendations on posts

It?s not just an inspection. There is a lot of paperwork and sometimes hassle in getting your paperwork right for the FAA. It?s much like an attorney representing a client at times.

I charge $450 plus travel. I feel like it is totally earned based on the time, effort,all behind the scenes on the clients behalf.

There is also the training and recurrent training and staying up on the regs

The reward for me is helping fellow aviators achieve a dream. Nothing like that!
 
DAR

I am a DAR-T for the FSDO and a DAR-F for the MIDO. I have a certification letter that I can forward that explains the process and the documentation involved. Fairly painless, usually if I get the docs in good form, I can review and send to the FAA, often receive delegation the same day, and we can schedule inspection. If I have documents about a week or so in advance, it usually flows smoothly. If you are in the Northwest Mountain Region, let me know if I can be of assistance!

Regards,

Gary Brown
[email protected]
 
I agree that 6 months is a good time to start getting your DAR in the loop as the paperwork all needs to be in order prior to the inspection. My big concern was finding someone who would be liberal on the phase 1 flight test area. If you go with the local FSDO you are more than likely to wind up with the standard 25 mile radius of the home field. The DAR's seem to be more flexible on larger areas (mine encompassed most of New England and then some).
I feel the 25 mile radius is not only unsafe, but does not allow you to fully evaluate the aircraft in all phases of flight. Yeah DAR's cost money, but they are usually quite good at what they do, including writing your ops. specs.. When the big day arrives it is usually a non-event. Oh yeah, did I say they LOVE PLACARDS!
Good Luck!
 
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I agree that 6 months is a good time to start getting your DAR in the loop as the paperwork all needs to be in order prior to the inspection. My big concern was finding someone who would be liberal on the phase 1 flight test area. If you go with the local FSDO you are more than likely to wind up with the standard 25 mile radius of the home field. The DAR's seem to be more flexible on larger areas (mine encompassed most of New England and then some).
I feel the 25 mile radius is not only unsafe, but does not allow you to fully evaluate the aircraft in all phases of flight. Yeah DAR's cost money, but they are usually quite good at what they do, including writing your ops. specs.. When the big day arrives it is usually a non-event. Oh yeah, did I say they LOVE PLACARDS!
Good Luck!

There is nothing standard about a 25 mile radius flight test area. All of our certifications, phase one because of modifications, etc., is handled through our local FSDO and they are totally fine with a 50 mile radius excluding densely populated areas.
If a FSDO is exclusive about 25 mile radius, it is a local office policy that doesn't align with the policies of all FAA offices.
 
I agree that 6 months is a good time to start getting your DAR in the loop as the paperwork all needs to be in order prior to the inspection. My big concern was finding someone who would be liberal on the phase 1 flight test area. If you go with the local FSDO you are more than likely to wind up with the standard 25 mile radius of the home field. The DAR's seem to be more flexible on larger areas (mine encompassed most of New England and then some).
I feel the 25 mile radius is not only unsafe, but does not allow you to fully evaluate the aircraft in all phases of flight. Yeah DAR's cost money, but they are usually quite good at what they do, including writing your ops. specs.. When the big day arrives it is usually a non-event. Oh yeah, did I say they LOVE PLACARDS!
Good Luck!


The flight test area assigned by a DAR is suppose to have been approved by the local FSDO.
 
All great information.
I was lucky to have other builders near that used the same DAR and with that came an established game plan. He charged $800 ( 6 hrs. travel time split with an aircraft 1 hr away). First phone call (of 5) to introduce myself lasted 20 mins as he explained the process, no inspection date would be scheduled until he had copies of all the required paperwork (phone photos emailed) for his review. He provided a detailed checklist of paperwork and aircraft prep. He knew and spoke with my ?mentors? regarding workmanship. All this took time on his part to make inspection day successful and exciting. It was.
FAA inspectors are free, but do it on their available time. In S Fla. they do it so seldom, they do it in groups of threes. One to do it, one to watch that he does it right, and one to get checked off on how to do it.
Finally, with FAA Oklahoma, the people are great but saturated, 30+ days behind to register....and I am terrible at paperwork....I hired a local company for $90 to handle the registration in 2 days. Good thing.....Vans forgot to place in my kit an official ?Bill of Sale?. Only the original is accepted by OK and they FEDEX it overnight to OK. I thought Vans invoice stamped PAID would work.
The DAR is paid not for an event but for the entire enchilada.
The FAA, by design, is a bump and grind, unpredictable.
The FAA wants you to use a DAR.
They are stretched thin.
Finally part 2..... insurance companies have their rules too....get that duck 🦆 quacking now to avoid surprises. T?s and I?s.

Cheers
R
 
FAA availability is highly variable depending not just on area, but local willingness, and also seasonal work load. My FSDO seems happy to do them, but are much more available outside the ag flying season (they're much busier then). More urban areas will probably differ.

While it makes sense to 'pick your battles', don't forget that they are *your employees*; they work for you, and there's nothing wrong with expecting your employee to do the job he's paid for.

Charlie
 
The flight test area assigned by a DAR is suppose to have been approved by the local FSDO.

On that topic, the DAR has a working relationship with his FSDO and is given latitude of reasonableness.
I submitted a phase I plan with a sectional showing a 10 mile corridor between two airports 117 miles apart, all over sparsely pop. swamp land. I wanted access to a specific mentor. He saw no reason to deny. Multiple uncontrolled airports along route as bailout strips allowed the plan.

R
 
Both my MIDO and FSDO give me pretty much free range on assignment of Phase I test area as long as I keep it reasonable. I base the size of the test area on the cruise speed of the aircraft. I typically give RVs, except for the -12, a 75 nautical mile radius. 50 miles for the -12. This is flexible and does not have to be centered on the home airport.
After doing almost 900 Amateur-Built and Light-Sport aircraft, most of the FAA offices in this part of the Country are familiar with my work.
 
I had a local (90 miles) fsdo come to inspect my 10, scheduling time was a couple months out. Free of charge, did a complete inspection, wrote me up for a few minor things, came back a month later but sent another guy to follow up with list of write ups. Was signed off, paperwork in motion for repairman cert and all in all a good free experience.

One thing I had a slight problem even though original guy had done some experimentals, he came from a certified maintenance facility and was a supervisor there. He had seen a lot of things in the certified world and one thing he had a problem with was the plastic grommet that the rudder cable goes through behind the baggage bulkhead. Since it rises upward at one point he was concerned with the cable sawing through the plastic, cutting into the aluminum and compromising the rudder cable. He cited a couple cases of that happening and wasn?t going to let that go. Showed him the plans, he verified correct part was put in, made a phone call to Vans, and although he didn?t agree with it said that because it was in the plans made it an inspection item. It ended there.
 
Back in '91 I was given a 25 mile 40 hr.. phase 1 test area for my RV6, it was brutal! It is nice to see that things are loosening up regarding phase 1 radius. It seems that down south and out west they are more likely to be flexible. I contacted 2 DAR`s here in the northeast for my RV7 inspection and they were both adamant on a 25 mile test area. The third guy was the charm. In my case it was worth shopping around.
 
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Vans forgot to place in my kit an official ?Bill of Sale?.

FYI for future RV builders.....
Van's does not put an official bill of sale in the last kit box (if they did, most people would likely lose it like they do many of the other documents that they call support about later).
To receive a copy of the bill of sale, you need to make a formal request. Do not wait until the last minute because these are processed primarily by just one specific person.
 
FAA inspectors are free, but do it on their available time. In S Fla. they do it so seldom, they do it in groups of threes. One to do it, one to watch that he does it right, and one to get checked off on how to do it.

This is what I experienced at the Lubbock FSDO when I went to get my repairmans certificate in late 2016. One older lady that knew the regs forward and backward, teaching two younger guys the process.
 
Charles,

Contact Lewis Blackwell (Charleston area DAR) and he'll let you know what to do. His fee, if I recall, was $800 for my -7A in 2017. You'll have a 50 mile radius from your home airport, excluding densely populated areas.

Be prepared to run the airplane when he arrives and confirm proper flight control operations. The first condition inspection should also be signed off in your logbook.

carolina.aircraft at yahoo.com

(803) 609-eleven eighty two
 
DAR Gary Brown

I second Gary Brown's comments. He has a great set of instructions and advice for getting the correct versions of the FAA forms completed. He knows the FAA processes and how to navigate them. He knows RV because he has built one or two. His fee was below average and he flew his RV to my airport for the inspection. He recently did my review in Seattle area even though he is from OR because our local DAR has been out of the country for extended period. The EAA packet on how to complete your experimental aircraft is great but the forms are out of date. Gary will help you get-er-done.
 
DAR NW USA

I am a DAR serving the Northwest Mountain Region for the Seattle MIDO, and Southern Washington, Oregon, and Northern California for the Portland FSDO.
I am retired, like to help EAA guys (and gals) keep their expenses low, charge $395.00 plus travel.

Please respond only to my email

[email protected]
Regards,

Gary
 
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