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AirVenture Arrival Flight Practice

RV6_flyer

Well Known Member
Benefactor
The AirVenture arrival NOTAM has been published and they still want us RV types flying the approach at 90 Kts because we can safely do it. IF you are unable to fly your RV at 90 Kts, you should not fly your RV into AirVenture Oshkosh.

RVs have very good slow flight handling. IF you are uncomfortable with slow flight, you need practice with slow flight. IF you lack the confidence for slow flight in your RV, get a CFI or another RV pilot that is comfortable to ride along as a safety pilot.

I typically do not fly my RV much below 122 KIAS other than in the traffic pattern. In preparation for OSH arrival, I like to get some flight in the aircraft on a simulated RIPON 90 Kt approach. I try to find an area where there is some feature like a road on the ground to fly over and a safe altitude that is around 1,000 AGL. I have several roads near me that are similar to the RIPON VFR Oshkosh arrival that I can fly 1,800 (1,100 AGL) over the road. My goal is to find a power setting that give me 90 KIAS so I can have my head on a swivel watching for traffic and navigating by looking outside the airplane. My RV-6 has a constant speed prop so finding an RPM and MAP that works is sorta easy. My O-320 and Hartzell prop can safely operate at 2,100 RPM all day long. I have checked the TCDS for both the engine and the prop. On my airplane, starting at 16" MAP and 2,100 RPM gets me started for 90 KIAS. That is a little low but once speed has dropped, I can push the throttle in increasing MAP toward 17" and my airplane will stay at 90 Kts and 1,800 altitude.

For safety, I want to be looking outside and very comfortable with only a glance inside to check power, airspeed, and altitude. I need to be able to maintain my ground path OVER Railroad tracks or over my practice road. Yes I will cut the corners off sharp turns that require large heading changes because the VFR RIPON approach to OSH does not have any large heading changes.

I have a ham radio 2-meter APRS tracker in my airplane. Below is the image of the tracker of today's practice flight.
Screen-Shot-2019-06-16-at-8-44-18-AM.png


Being 2020 ADS-B out compliant with a Mode S transponder, I also have data about my flight available on FlightRadar24.
Screen-Shot-2019-06-16-at-8-47-33-AM.png


FlightRadar24 also has ADS-B out ground speed and altitude data that one can see. Altitude data is referenced to pressure altitude (29.92) so may not be exactly what was flown but it will show ups and downs from the planned altitude.
Screen-Shot-2019-06-16-at-8-48-04-AM.png


Now the world can see that I am not the best pilot when it comes to airspeed and altitude control but this is my starting point for my 2019 AirVenutre Oshkosh arrival. My flight west was into a headwind and when I turned, it became a tailwind. I will make more practice flights to prepare for 90 Kt arrival at 1,000 AGL. I need to be able to navigate looking out the window, watch for other aircraft, adjust speed for other aircraft, reprogram radio for possible frequency changes (I know what frequencies are being used before I get in line for arrival.), and also to be able to reprogram the GPS so that I can go to my alternate airport.
 
Practice is great. Everyone should do it. It might also tell you something about your airplane - how do your oil temperatures do at 90 knots, for instance?

Another safety measure is to set minimums. How slow are you willing to fly the conga line? I will not accept under 70 knots. I have a reasonable amount of margin there if I need to maneuver. Below that, I'm exiting the line.
 
Forgot to mention, "Precision, Short, Soft-Field landings" are what I do almost all the time. If you do not do them, get proficient with them before OSH and be ready for a "go-around" just in case.

As Kyle said, have a minimum speed planned to break out of the conga line. My airplane has CAS higher than indicated. At 70 KCAS, I break out of the conga line and start over. On my airplane, 70 KCAS is the same as 65 KIAS. Know your airplane and what you can safely do with it.
 
2nd what Gary says. Way to many people cant get anywhere close to the dot.

Bob burns
Rv-4 n82rb
 
I have flown the pattern at Oshkosh more than once looking down and seeing 80 mph so be prepared! Also when practicing at your local airport, make a normal approach at the numbers then hit the throttle before flaring and fly to the middle of the runway and then flare and land. All this considering you have plenty of runway. The airport I practice at has 10k' runway so I have plenty safety factor. This is a difficult maneuver if you have never practiced it. After having learned and practiced to hit the numbers for years it was a very awkward for me to goose it and fly down to the middle of the field!
 
Excellent post and I second all of it! Just want to reinforce the need to practice flying at 70 knots at max gross weight. In all the years I've flown into Kosh, never have I been able to do it at 90, usual much slower. Frustrating to have slower planes cut in front of you after doing everything correct just to have to go back for another try and get behind a very slow one again! This is more the normal so need to practice "very slow flight", down to your minimum comfortable speed. I go out and get very used to going very slow. Thinks even sound different going slow!
 
A more general question about slow flight and flaps, how would you know at what speed of slow flight it would be safer to put some flaps in and increase power?
 
Forgot to mention, "Precision, Short, Soft-Field landings" are what I do almost all the time. If you do not do them, get proficient with them before OSH and be ready for a "go-around" just in case.

Make a few of those practice landings from a close right hand pattern, required for 27.

If sent to the second dot, clear the runway to the side as soon as practical.

Here's one for The Walk Of Shame. Practice. Don't be this guy.

You're looking at Rwy 27, Sunday morning a few years back. Cirrus 874T had been cleared to the orange dot, the first one at the threshold. He overflew too fast, tried to force it, bounced, and hit nose first. The gigantic inhalation from the lawn chair row drew my attention. Here's the first shot when I got the camera on him. He is about to make his third touchdown. Note the bent nose gear:

IMG_3705.jpg


And here it is. Missed the orange dot, but he sure enough hit the green one.

IMG_3706.jpg


The subsequent re-launch was severe.

IMG_3707.jpg


IMG_3708.jpg


IMG_3709.jpg


But none the less, he pushes over for another try:

IMG_3710.jpg


...until he finally notices the RV-9 in front of him...

IMG_3712.jpg


...and adds power. He on the edge of a stall...

IMG_3713.jpg


..but manages to miss.

IMG_3714.jpg


The folks in that RV-9 are Roy and Sandy Thoma (Capt Sandy). Roy had landed on the green dot as directed, and (thankfully) started for the runway edge as soon as practical, expecting to turn off into the south side grass right past the stuck Lancair. That's smart, and another OSH training habit worth developing. Don't brake heavily, but do clear the runway ASAP.
 
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A more general question about slow flight and flaps, how would you know at what speed of slow flight it would be safer to put some flaps in and increase power?

I have found that 15 deg flaps helps in my -7 at 90 kts, pitches the nose down a bit for better forward visibility, and carry a bit more power if you have to break out.
Figs
 
A more general question about slow flight and flaps, how would you know at what speed of slow flight it would be safer to put some flaps in and increase power?

Most of the RVs has a designer recommendation of 100 MPH (87 Kts) or less as flap speed. Being that it is experimental built and flown aircraft, IF you have tested your flaps in Phase I at a higher speed, it becomes a personal option.

I prefer to use flaps for landing. I tend to not put flaps down till I am in the traffic pattern.
 
I'm doing this exact thing this weekend for my first ever trip to OSH. Like others, I don't fly this slow unless I'm in the pattern. I need to know the extended time power settings and what my oil temp will be doing at 90kts. Good to see I'm not the only that thinks practice at slow flight should be a pre-requisite for this event.
 
Then get 2 or 3 buddies and fly "over the railroad tracks with half mile spacing at 90 kts and 1000 agl." Take turns mixing up the order.
 
Most of the RVs has a designer recommendation of 100 MPH (87 Kts) or less as flap speed. Being that it is experimental built and flown aircraft, IF you have tested your flaps in Phase I at a higher speed, it becomes a personal option.

It may be a personal option, but the structure and the laws of physics don't care what you prefer. Yes, you can check the aerodynamics in Phase 1, but that doesn't do anything for checking structural integrity and safety margins.

Be real careful when exceeding designers' recommendations! Getting away with something once or twice doesn't mean that it's "safe."
 
Per Van's:

For the RV-4s, -6s, -7s, and -8s, the Flap Placard Speed is 110 MPH for 20 degrees and less, and 100 MPH for Full Flaps.

For the RV-9, the Flap Placard Speed is 100 MPH for 15 degrees and less, and 90 MPH for Full Flaps.​

Reference - The Construction Manual:

i-GDjtvgb-M.jpg

30-years ago, the RV-6 manual said 100 MPH flap speed. There was not an RV-7 or 8 at that time. Van's did not send out updates to the 30-year old manual and I have not asked for updates.

My RV-6 has manual flaps and I do not have enough strength to put all the flaps out above 75 KIAS.
 
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Wow DanH, those are some scary pictures! I'd recommend that everyone take a look at all of the 2018 arrival and departure videos posted by AirShowStuff on YouTube if you've never been to AirVenture before. I don't want to scare anyone, but I just want everyone to be prepared for the potential mess that can happen. The opening weekend in 2018 was a mess due to a slow moving storm front that kept everyone away from Oshkosh until the last minute. Please come prepared!

I've been going for at least 16 years in a row and last year was the worst I've seen.
 
Okay. I have to say that when I saw the topic headline for this post I figured it was some overly cautious newbie scared to attemd. Boy was I wrong. What a great thread, from Gary's initial post to every other contribution. I must be getting crusty. Kudos to Gary and the rest of you.

Based on flying the Ripon/Fisk arrival procedures for years the kind of advice extended in this thread is invaluable to any pilot. And more so to the ATC volunteers and everybody involved. As a rule the NOTAM is very well thought out and works great until "that pilot" shows up who bumbles in to the foray without preparation. Unfortunately in the last few years there has been an overabundance of "that pilot". I fully understand that the last couple of years in particular have been burdenden by sketchy weather which only exasperated problems in the arrival. But I would guess that anybody here on the VAF Forum who has done the arrival procedure has had "that pilot" go whizzing past them or off to the side of the railroad tracks instead of over them. It's like some folks didn't comprehend the NOTAM or know how to fly 90 knots.

Glad to see someone bring up the subject of practicing to enhance all of our safety.

Jim
 
RV Fiske Arrival Question

Having flow the Fisk arrival in several slower aircraft I was looking forward to flying this year at the higher 135kt/2,300ft MSL level with a recently acquired RV-4. :D

This discussion chain is based on a statement that it's preferred in the NOTAM that RV's fly the slower 90kts/lower 1,800ft MSL arrival. Can someone clarify where that's in the NOTAM? I don't see that noted as a requirement.

It seems odd to me that it would be a safer practice to maintain unusual slower cruise speeds from Ripon to KOSH, with other aircraft that might be struggling to maintain 90kts, if I can stay "above the fray" at a comfortable 135kts.

Am I missing something here? :confused:
 
Having flow the Fisk arrival in several slower aircraft I was looking forward to flying this year at the higher 135kt/2,300ft MSL level with a recently acquired RV-4. :D

This discussion chain is based on a statement that it's preferred in the NOTAM that RV's fly the slower 90kts/lower 1,800ft MSL arrival. Can someone clarify where that's in the NOTAM? I don't see that noted as a requirement.

It seems odd to me that it would be a safer practice to maintain unusual slower cruise speeds from Ripon to KOSH, with other aircraft that might be struggling to maintain 90kts, if I can stay "above the fray" at a comfortable 135kts.

Am I missing something here? :confused:

Doesn?t the notam say ?if able? fly the 90 knot stream? That?s cut and dried to me. Beyond that, flying the higher stream creates one more merge point on final where all the aircraft have to congregate to land.
 
I'm looking at it and it says:

"Arrive at Ripon at 90 knots and 1,800'...faster aircraft use 135 knots and 2,300'"

It goes on to make suggestions about aircraft unable to maintain 90 knots flying at their maximum and recommends an early AM arrival.

It does not appear to stipulate that aircraft must fly 90 knots if they're capable of higher performance.
 
It does not appear to stipulate that aircraft must fly 90 knots if they're capable of higher performance.

Capable of higher performance is irreverent. The NOTAM is specific...the high approach is for aircraft unable to operate comfortably at 90 knots. All RV's operate just fine at 90 knots.

Here's the problem. You whiz along overhead, then descend into the pattern, blind as a mole. You can't see the slower airplanes on the same track under you. The vertical merge is entirely reliant on the tower controllers. Errors aside, they tend to turn out the low aircraft if there is a conflict. If it happens, and the high bird is your RV, you will definitely be "that guy".
 
Referencing Post 18, I had been to Oshkosh many times back in the 70ties, and 80ties, but I've only "flown" there once in 2015. So I thought I'd better practice this 90 Kt stuff at home for extended distances. I wasn't real happy with 90 Kts and zero flaps, not that it can't be done, but--------

So I started practicing at 1/2 flaps. That worked out quite well. My flaps take 6 seconds to go full down, so I just counted 1001, 1002, 1003.:)
 
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If there are four abreast in the holding patterns at 1800', I'm **** sure that I'm unable to comfortably maintain 90 kts!! It's a wonder there wasn't a mid-air last year.

Of course my aircraft can fly at 90 kts, but with 2018 as an example, I think the risk of descending on a plane from 2300' was far less than tangling with the maelstrom 500' below.

Went out today and did some runs today at both speeds, with the aircraft loaded up to get used to the farther-aft cg. With a Catto FP prop and IO-320, 90 kts worked out to 1550 rpm; 135 kts, 2500 rpm.
 
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Of course my aircraft can fly at 90 kts, but with 2018 as an example, I think the risk of descending on a plane from 2300' was far less than tangling with the maelstrom 500' below.

You will be descending into the maelstrom, and the people below you are robbed of see-and-avoid.

The practical reason for the 135 knot approach is so typical light twins can stay above Vsse, or in some cases even Vso, not so RV owners can be line-jumpers.
 
Capable of higher performance is irreverent. The NOTAM is specific...the high approach is for aircraft unable to operate comfortably at 90 knots. All RV's operate just fine at 90 knots.

Since an aircraft has no feelings, doesn't the word "comfortably" refer to the pilot? I can certainly operate my -10 at 90kts, but 135 kts is more comfortable. FWIW

-Marc
 
So...

This reminds me of those guys on the highway that just HAVE to get there a minute earlier...and end up becoming a danger to everyone else.

As has been stated earlier, the RV's fly just fine at 90 kts. If everyone followed the procedure instead of thinking they know better, the arrival would work much better.

...and as stated earlier, if YOU are not comfortable flying your RV at 90 kts, it is time to practice...
 
As always Dan is technically on point.

I offer that the NOTAM is long overdue to update the 1800' and 90 knot guidance. Considering the plethora of RVs flying in each year, and that such a long run at slow speed is not a routine evolution for most RV guys, I fear the addition of being directed behind a 70 knot weak sister, or other unexpected stuff to the pilot workload might lead to inadvertent stalls. Looking back at last year's problems we were lucky.

There has to be a better option. Perhaps a controlled "merge" procedure?

In the meantime, as has been suggested use half flaps to gain a little speed margin, and practice.

Carl
 
As always Dan is technically on point.

I offer that the NOTAM is long overdue to update the 1800' and 90 knot guidance. Considering the plethora of RVs flying in each year, and that such a long run at slow speed is not a routine evolution for most RV guys, I fear the addition of being directed behind a 70 knot weak sister, or other unexpected stuff to the pilot workload might lead to inadvertent stalls. Looking back at last year's problems we were lucky.

There has to be a better option. Perhaps a controlled "merge" procedure?

In the meantime, as has been suggested use half flaps to gain a little speed margin, and practice.

Carl

Thing is, the RV does as well at 70 knots as a Cherokee, a Tomahawk, or any of the Grummans. Being able to handle a 90 knot (plus or minus) arrival should not be a challenge.
 
Exactly

Exactly. If you aren?t comfortable with ?slow flight?, get some training and/or practice until you are comfortable.

All of the rv?s except the -10 have stall speeds around 58 mph or less. That?s about 50 knots. Flying at 70 knots should not be any issue whatsoever for the airplane...
 
As often happens I failed to properly communicate my point.

I choose to fly always striving for a margin a safety. The RV will fly fine at 90 knots or less, until something unforeseen happens. The Oshkosh NOTAM can be challenging, and the traffic only adds to the risk. Having a few more knots of speed to get yourself out of a mess has inherent advantage.

There is a difference between capable and prudent.

Stepping off my soapbox.
Carl
 
It's mentioned a lot, but when was the last time someone actually bent metal with an inadvertent stall between Ripon and traffic pattern?

Using the search terms "state = Wisconsin" and keyword "Stall", I went through all 187 accident/incident results, looking at any which fell within the expected date window with a location identified as Oshkosh. Plenty of pattern accidents, mostly short final and flare, but not a single report of an accident while inbound from Ripon, in any airplane type.

One the other hand, the pattern can be a high-pressure place. Muddying it up more drop-ins from the 2300 ft level would make things worse.

BTW, here are a few good examples of why everyone should practice a half dozen abbreviated right hand patterns to touchdown. I'm doing it this afternoon:

https://app.ntsb.gov/pdfgenerator/R...tID=20150722X51858&AKey=1&RType=HTML&IType=FA

https://app.ntsb.gov/pdfgenerator/R...tID=20060727X01025&AKey=1&RType=HTML&IType=FA

https://app.ntsb.gov/pdfgenerator/R...tID=20010731X01569&AKey=1&RType=HTML&IType=FA
 
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So...

So, you are flying an arrival that Requires a speed, the aircraft is capable...do you add ?a few more knots? because it?s ?prudent??

Sorry, when it comes right down to it, that does not work on arrivals. Why?...because you are not the only one flying the arrival; the whole procedure is predicated on EVERYONE complying with the procedure. The guy that takes liberties with the arrival procedures is ?that guy?.

In the end, if you cannot, or choose not to comply with the published procedure, then you are obligated to make other arrangements such that you do not endanger everyone else...
 
I'm not averse to flying in at 90 kts...extremely easy to do in a -9. My decision to go high & fast...based on far too many planes trying to occupy too small a space at 1800'...was not to line-jump but to arrive at OSH as safely as possible. I'm not advocating this as an everyday shortcut for RVs. Yet on that particular day under those extraordinary conditions, it was the safer thing to do as PIC.

Once you're past Fisk, you're not descending into the maelstrom...that's reserved for holding patterns and the area pre-Ripon to Fisk. Sure, there is some risk in the descent here, but tower has eyes on you. Light twins, etc. are assuming that risk too.

Here's hoping that the weather allows a safe and orderly approach to Osh for everyone in 2019. I'm perfectly happy at 90 kts as long as I'm not in de facto formation flying, alongside others who have no training in the discipline. And it really got to that point in '18.
 
BTW, here are a few good examples of why everyone should practice a half dozen abbreviated right hand patterns to touchdown. I'm doing it this afternoon...
Definitely. I plan on going to Redlands and doing several of those myself.
 
Not arguing with your premise, but in addition to the RV-10s, the RV-7s and -8s have stall speeds above 58 MPH flaps up. 15 or 20 degrees of flap on some models will help (per the Flap Placard speeds in post #18). However, flaps up maneuver margin at 70 KTS may be a little marginal for some pilots.

With a notch of flaps, none of these aircraft will stall at more than 60, maybe 62 mph. Multiply that by 1.3 to get yourself an adequate margin against stall, and you get 62x1.3 = 81 mph. Divide that by 1.15 and you get 70 knots.

But if you're not comfortable there, bail out of the line at 75 knots.

Keep yourself safe, but consider that the procedures only work if we follow them.
 
I'm not averse to flying in at 90 kts...extremely easy to do in a -9. My decision to go high & fast...based on far too many planes trying to occupy too small a space at 1800'...was not to line-jump but to arrive at OSH as safely as possible. I'm not advocating this as an everyday shortcut for RVs. Yet on that particular day under those extraordinary conditions, it was the safer thing to do as PIC.

Once you're past Fisk, you're not descending into the maelstrom...that's reserved for holding patterns and the area pre-Ripon to Fisk. Sure, there is some risk in the descent here, but tower has eyes on you. Light twins, etc. are assuming that risk too.

Here's hoping that the weather allows a safe and orderly approach to Osh for everyone in 2019. I'm perfectly happy at 90 kts as long as I'm not in de facto formation flying, alongside others who have no training in the discipline. And it really got to that point in '18.

With all respect Doug, no matter what you want to call it, using the high road to get past everyone else is line cutting. On top of that, while you might find that it is safer for YOU, it definitely puts others at risk, becasue you are descending in front of them, and creating more dimensions for the controllers to manage. The safest thing you can do for YOURSELF (and your passengers) if things go nuts is to go land somewhere and wait it out - things will get better eventually.

Yeah, its not more convenient, and you don?t get to Oshkosh as early - but it is safer, as you are striving for. Anything else is rationalization.

(BTW - when things got bad last yer no one was getting past Fiske - high road or low - so the high road doesn?t;t help there either.)

As others have said, it only works if EVERYONE follows the procedure- if you deviate, you?re contributing to the problem.
 
With all respect Doug, no matter what you want to call it, using the high road to get past everyone else is line cutting. On top of that, while you might find that it is safer for YOU, it definitely puts others at risk, becasue you are descending in front of them, and creating more dimensions for the controllers to manage. The safest thing you can do for YOURSELF (and your passengers) if things go nuts is to go land somewhere and wait it out - things will get better eventually.

Yeah, its not more convenient, and you don?t get to Oshkosh as early - but it is safer, as you are striving for. Anything else is rationalization.

(BTW - when things got bad last yer no one was getting past Fiske - high road or low - so the high road doesn?t;t help there either.)

As others have said, it only works if EVERYONE follows the procedure- if you deviate, you?re contributing to the problem.

I appreciate your input, Paul, but if I had to make the same decision...under the same circumstances...I'd do it again. As I said before, I'm perfectly happy flying in at 90 kts without planes wingtip-to-wingtip.
 
It's mentioned a lot, but when was the last time someone actually bent metal with an inadvertent stall between Ripon and traffic pattern?

Using the search terms "state = Wisconsin" and keyword "Stall", I went through all 187 accident/incident results, looking at any which fell within the expected date window with a location identified as Oshkosh. Plenty of pattern accidents, mostly short final and flare, but not a single report of an accident while inbound from Ripon, in any airplane type.

This goes back a few years but recent enough to be relevant. It is also the accident which Rick Durden wrote about back in 2001 and which I post every year around this time.

NTSB: https://app.ntsb.gov/pdfgenerator/ReportGeneratorFile.ashx?EventID=20010809X01646&AKey=1&RType=Final&IType=FA
 
Had a chance to do some 90kt, 1,000ft AGL approach practice today at KTEX (Telluride, CO - 9,000ftish MSL) and glad to report the RV-4 didn't precipitously plummet out out of the sky in the process. Of course there was that d**khead in the Meridian who chose to announce he was departing 27 just as I was touching down on 9 who screwed up my picture-perfect, textbook wheel-landing, but that's a different story. :rolleyes:

Looking forward to many discussions at KOSH, over adult beverages, how best to arrive at Ripon, after weather & traffic permitting we all get there safely and don't repeat the 2016 or 2018 maelstroms. :)
 
This discussion resurfaces every year it seems, with one side that can’t comfortably fly their RV at 90 knots and proficient RVators on the other.
 
Last evening I went out and flew a long string of screwy right hand patterns, mostly power at idle, continuous turns to touchdown, from a downwind far closer to the runway than I normally use...visually well inboard of the gas cap. They required a small turn radius, with the usual potential for accelerated stall. I was milking it around, being gentle, guarding the margin.

I got curious. Last time I tried accelerated stalls at a typical final approach speed was back in Phase 1 So, I went off to the local practice area, climbed to 4500, set up 70 knots and full flaps, and started pulling.

Surprise...all I got was a tired right arm, going around and around. With just a tiny bit of power, I could pull to 1.7G all day without the slightest sign of a nibble, level or in slight descent. That's a far harder pull than I would ever use for real (typical is 1.2~1.3 max). Primary caveat here is being at half fuel and solo.

If you're concerned about 90 knots in the proximity of others, I'd suggest a similar demo flight. Get some altitude, set up 90 knots and 5~10 degrees of flap, then maneuver as hard as you please within the usual G-limits. I think you'll conclude you have a very large margin for maneuvering at 90 knots.
 
Not to "fart in church" here, but what made 90 kts the "holy grail"? Why not 100 or 80? I'm going to guess it was set a long, long, long time ago when "homebuilt" planes were on average a lot slower. It's just the way we've always done it, ya see!

I re-read the notam and it states that if you can't comfortably operate at 90kts, use the higher altitude. It doesn't say that if you fly an RV, you must use 90kts. I'm perfectly comfortable at 90 kts and below and will fly there, but if someone is more comfortable at the higher altitude, so what? It's there to be used and presumably the FAA has the staff to manage it since they've made it available. If that's not true, then it's the FAA's fault, not the pilot who's following the instructions.
 
Well, my $.02 is the NOTAM's intent is more about the airplane, not the pilot. IMO if you can't comfortably fly an RV at 90 knots then you need to take a real hard look in the mirror and re-evaluate whether flying to OSH is a good idea. Personally I'd just as soon you not fly to OSH if that's the case. Not sorry in the least if my opinion offends anyone.
 
If everyone flew 90 it would be no problem.

The problem is wallowing behind a tundra-tired bush bird doing 60-70knts. That is when it gets sporty, because your are gaining on him and have slow down even more to re-establish spacing. Cue the slinky effect. Full gross at 60knts is not in my happy place. And that is where I was last year before I bailed and went high. The high pattern was solid and disciplined. Everyone was on their marks. The low pattern was chaos.

The faulty assumption is that everyone is going to be locked on 90.

Does...not...happen.
 
The problem is wallowing behind a tundra-tired bush bird doing 60-70knts. That is when it gets sporty, because your are gaining on him and have slow down even more to re-establish spacing. Cue the slinky effect. Full gross at 60knts is not in my happy place. And that is where I was last year before I bailed and went high. The high pattern was solid and disciplined. Everyone was on their marks. The low pattern was chaos.
The faulty assumption is that everyone is going to be locked on 90.
Does...not...happen.

Dilbert.jpg
 
Not to "fart in church" here, but what made 90 kts the "holy grail"? Why not 100 or 80? I'm going to guess it was set a long, long, long time ago when "homebuilt" planes were on average a lot slower. It's just the way we've always done it, ya see!
SNIP

Exactly my point.
Carl
 
The problem is wallowing behind a tundra-tired bush bird doing 60-70knts. That is when it gets sporty, because your are gaining on him and have slow down even more to re-establish spacing. Cue the slinky effect. Full gross at 60knts is not in my happy place. And that is where I was last year before I bailed and went high. The high pattern was solid and disciplined. Everyone was on their marks. The low pattern was chaos.

The NOTAM is pretty clear on what to do in such a situation:
Do not ?S-turn? to follow an aircraft; instead, break off the procedure; return to Ripon; and follow another aircraft of similar speed.
 
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