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-   -   Does Your Airplane Have a Fire Extinguisher? (https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?t=180420)

s10sakota 03-13-2020 01:48 PM

Does Your Airplane Have a Fire Extinguisher?
 
Hey all, I don't post much here since I've sold my RV-7, but I'd like to get the word out about the importance of having a fire extinguisher in your airplane.

If you don't think it's important, or didn't yet 'get around to installing one', check out my new video...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpDbl4F86yQ&t=1s


lr172 03-13-2020 02:02 PM

5# halotron in my planes.

DeeCee 57 03-13-2020 04:07 PM

nope, no firex...

RVs don?t burn, they just melt :D

Mel 03-13-2020 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeeCee 57 (Post 1414359)
nope, no firex...
RVs don?t burn, they just melt :D

End result is pretty much the same!

moosepileit 03-13-2020 04:48 PM

I was always taught a firex in a plane is for a spot fire or putting out flames on someone. Likely in aid to others less prepared and in dire need.

As in, they have an induction fire and a no-start or are rolling around ablaze.

gmcjetpilot 03-13-2020 05:30 PM

I follow Mark's channel on YouTube. I saw the video. It looked like an Avgas-fueled fire. A little tiny 5 lb dry chemical or Halon fire extinguisher, you're probably screwed. Fire extinguisher is a good idea for a small electrical fire. The one word and take away from this video is "insurance".

The video Mark notes there was a fire extinguisher at the fuel pumps, but it was in a unmarked white box. A very large fire extinguisher will have a chance than a little 5 lb portable. Lesson locate fire exchingsher before fueling?

10builder 03-13-2020 05:35 PM

I installed an Element fire extinguisher on the roll bar using their mount.

BlndRvtr 03-13-2020 07:23 PM

Have you had a chance to experiment with the Element fire extinguisher? I?m intrigued, but hate to need it only to find it wasn?t up to the task.

George

Bavafa 03-13-2020 07:59 PM

Mine certainly has one.

Fasteagle 03-13-2020 08:10 PM

Fire
 
If you DID have a fire extinguisher on board, would you of been able to fight the fire with the cowl on? Doubt it.
Gentlemen, take a serious look at PROTENG. Such a simple fire fighting device. It?s automatic and directed at the heat source, which is great because you may not even know that you?re on fire while in the air. If you should crash and are unconscious or unable to reach for a small extinguisher and direct it to the source that you probably couldn?t get to anyway, it will set off automatically and extinguish the fire for you. You can even get a cockpit indicator that lets you know it has discharged due to fire while flying. It is non corrosive and non toxic unlike Halon. It won?t damage avionics either. It installs simply with nylon tie wraps.
I am not an employee of the company. It is just the best safety device that I have come across in years and I am installing it on my F1H Rocket firewall.
PROTENG.COM.

N941WR 03-13-2020 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10builder (Post 1414380)
I installed an Element fire extinguisher on the roll bar using their mount.

Be very careful mounting anything on the rollbar. In the event of an accident, it could break loose and hit someone in the back of the head.

fabricflyer 03-13-2020 09:25 PM

Proteng question
 
Fasteagle, Aren't you concerned that the temp under the housing will get over 194 degrees? Have you talked to the people at Proteng about this? what did they say? I saw they had one mounted in a Cessna 182.
Allen

Fasteagle 03-13-2020 09:54 PM

Fire extinguisher
 
Allen,

Yes I did. They use these in race cars, airplanes, RV?s, workshops, etc. Any place where there is heat or a fire source or potential for fire. It is used in high heat close quarters areas. If memory is correct I want to say 350 degrees is where it sets off but I may be incorrect with this. There are videos giving examples of a fire near then it setting off automatically, which very efficiently and completely put out the fire.
Contact Nichole Wheeler at Proteng and she will kindly address all your concerns.
They gave a very good presentation at our last EAA meeting and we were all impressed. It?s a great safety device with many applications. Not to stir any negative comments, but my opinion is that most small fire extinguishers are just a false sense of security. Sure, better than nothing but not equal to or certainly not better than this.
I had a friend crash in an experimental years ago. He survived the impact only to be trapped inside. The roofers several houses away witnessed the crash and could hear him screaming for several minutes as he burned to death. No one was able to get to him fast enough. Horrible death I want no part of. Safety is an attitude as we are all taught.

romaja 03-13-2020 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fasteagle (Post 1414434)
Allen,

Yes I did. They use these in race cars, airplanes, RV?s, workshops, etc. Any place where there is heat or a fire source or potential for fire. It is used in high heat close quarters areas. If memory is correct I want to say 350 degrees is where it sets off but I may be incorrect with this. There are videos giving examples of a fire near then it setting off automatically, which very efficiently and completely put out the fire.
Contact Nichole Wheeler at Proteng and she will kindly address all your concerns.
They gave a very good presentation at our last EAA meeting and we were all impressed. It?s a great safety device with many applications. Not to stir any negative comments, but my opinion is that most small fire extinguishers are just a false sense of security. Sure, better than nothing but not equal to or certainly not better than this.
I had a friend crash in an experimental years ago. He survived the impact only to be trapped inside. The roofers several houses away witnessed the crash and could hear him screaming for several minutes as he burned to death. No one was able to get to him fast enough. Horrible death I want no part of. Safety is an attitude as we are all taught.

From the Proteng website:

How does the PROTENG? fire suppression device work?

The system is fully automatic and responds to increasing temperatures. At temperatures of 158?F (Standard) or 194?F (Heavy Duty) and or contact with direct flame, the tube ruptures, releasing the non-toxic agent and thus extinguishing the protected area.



What if there?s contact with skin or eyes? What if it?s inhaled?

If contact with skin or eyes, immediately flush with plenty of water for at least 15 minutes. Take off contaminated clothing immediately and wash before re-use. If inhaled, remove from exposure to fresh air and lie down. Consult a physician.

Fasteagle 03-13-2020 10:09 PM

Extinguisher
 
Well there ya go.

dpansier 03-13-2020 10:41 PM

Interesting concept, pressurized fire suppressant similar to Dupont FE-36 in a hose that will rupture at a certain temperature.

PCT and info on Dupont FE-36 linked below.

https://patentimages.storage.googlea...17208166A1.pdf

http://www.pyrochem.com/pdfs/flagfire/FE-36_Tech_Bu.pdf

RV7A Flyer 03-13-2020 11:49 PM

I'd sure like to see a test of one of these systems under the cowling. You know, take a scrapped engine block, run some fuel hoses the way they'd run, put it inside a cowling, *blast 170 knot winds at it*, and ignite a fire and a broken hose.

I just can't see that this would work with an engine fire in flight. On the ground, maybe (but if that big fan out front is turning and blowing air into the cowling?).

Race cars are *not* the same thing...something on fire? You can stop the vehicle (or it may have already stopped by virtue of smacking into something, which caused the fire in the first place).

bobnoffs 03-14-2020 05:34 AM

Until you turn off the fuel flow (glider pilot). I don?t think any system will put out a fire in flight. I am assuming that with fuel off 99% of the fuel source is eliminated. The extinguisher might help with whatever is left that is combustible.
Anyone have any experience or knowledge of how a fire in flight reacts to shutting off the fuel flow?

olyolson 03-14-2020 06:37 AM

Fire extinguisher
 
PROTENG® fire suppression Sounds like a good concept but I found no pricing on their website. Any cost to share with the group Fasteagle?

BobbyLucas 03-14-2020 07:24 AM

FYI - if you haven't seen Vic's firex thread: "Don't use ABC fire extinguishers!"

http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...d.php?t=180422

Fasteagle 03-14-2020 09:58 AM

Extinguisher
 
Gents,

I have received several pm inquiries regarding Proteng Fire Extinguishing systems since my initial post. The main question is the temp of 194 degrees. The 194 degree temp is a resistance temperature. Average activation temp is OVER 300 degrees, hence my 350 deg post earlier.
The price is determined by the foot and by chemical mixture, depending on where you want it. If it helps for referencing, for the application on my F1 I will run a loop from mid cowl up around the top to the other side mid cowl. Also, for pricing the average RV-6 application will run $699.
The folks at Proteng are currently on the road headed to Southern California for presentations and will gladly meet with EAA chapters or interested individuals for product presentations.
Give Nichole a call at: 561-776-8364 for additional information or providing a free product presentation.

JonJay 03-14-2020 12:04 PM

Might be good to start a dedicated thread on this technology. Sounds great for a fire in an enclosed area, per their description, but this won?t help in an ?in the air? fire unless it is identified quickly and the source of fuel (fuel or oil) can be shut down, like right now.
There is a lot of air flowing through the system in flight. I worry it would just blow the chemical away from the source of ignition.

I carry fire extinguishers but am convinced it is for ground fires. The most common RV fire is a wheel pant. Most RV accidents with a post crash fire, the occupants where already dead. There are too few examples of inflight fires to gage how effective an extinguisher might be, of any type. Lots of previous discussions on that with conflicting opinions.

Let?s flesh this one out.

RVStudent 03-14-2020 01:11 PM

Get the A out of ABC
 
Our T hangars and Large hangars have gone to BC fire extinguishers. I believe that eliminates the the corrosion but you have obviously lost your paper and wood fire fighting.
Many of the BC extinguishers also have the dry chemical 'purple K' added for more effectiveness. The disadvantage of purple K is a dry residue that must be vacuumed after use. Do NOT use water to rinse it off as it becomes a mess.

Capt 03-15-2020 03:50 AM

I have a fire extinguisher in my 8. It's there NOT for the above outcome it's for use in-flight especially for an electrical issue. That plus an escape survival tool, both very important!

rv8ch 03-15-2020 03:54 AM

fire extinguisher
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Capt (Post 1414658)
I have a fire extinguisher in my 8. ...

Hi Capt, what kind/size and how did you mount it?

JonJay 03-15-2020 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capt (Post 1414658)
I have a fire extinguisher in my 8. It's there NOT for the above outcome it's for use in-flight especially for an electrical issue. That plus an escape survival tool, both very important!

There have been lots of reports of "puffs" or smell of smoke due to an electrical issue. Hopefully you have used Tefzel wiring, non-flammable or flame sustaining insulation, and by all means, shut your Master off.
After that, what's burning? If there is stuff in or under your panel that can sustain a flame and keep burning, figure it out and redesign your systems or materials.

There is also discussion about what happens in a small enclosed cockpit when you fire the extinguisher off. Not sure I want to be the test monkey for that.
Regardless, how do you know where the fire is? Are you just going to point it under the panel and hope?

Rather than restart this discussion again, I suggest folks go back and search the archives as all this has been discussed many times. I think you will find a lot of answers, discussions, and never ending debates. But to me, I can't find a scenario that makes sense to use it in the air.

By the way, I carry a Halon. One in the RV, and One for each cockpit in the Biplane. It makes me feel better but I am not sure why.....

turbo 03-15-2020 08:47 AM

actually my plane has its second unit in it. the first one put out a fire in the air box. thank you, ill always have one on board. :)

JonJay 03-15-2020 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbo (Post 1414696)
actually my plane has its second unit in it. the first one put out a fire in the air box. thank you, ill always have one on board. :)

Thanks Turbo. That and a brake fire seem to be the two most common real world scenarios.
Both ground fires. Still waiting to hear from the first inflight fire in an RV successfully put out by an extinguisher. I want to know the scenario and how it was done. I think they are so rare, we haven't had any real exposure.

romaja 03-15-2020 10:00 AM

Article on Homebuilt fires
 
Surprising how low of a percentage inflight fires were in this article:


https://www.kitplanes.com/homebuilt-...2020%2F02%2F25


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