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Who else had/has second thoughts?

I would like to thank anyone in advance for commenting on their feelings.
I have dreamed of building a plane with my father. As the adage goes ?We had time and no money. Now I have money and no time?. My father passed several years ago so now I want to build but with my wife and kids. This is an expensive endeavor and will take many years. How many of you had seconds thoughts before buying the kit? I have been watch a couple guys on YouTube build for years and they do talk about the difficulties but have no kids. Mine are little but getting to do this project would create life long memories not to mention getting to fly places once done.
Did anyone think this is crazy, what am I doing, why am I considering this, or is this even worth it? I know that in the end getting to fly around with my family is fun for me but what if they want nothing to do with it? I guess I?m just looking to hear that I?m not along in thinking this is a crazy long process that could potentially fail. I don?t want to fail but family comes first. I want to do this with them, not against them. I don?t want to be selfish with my time or money. Money in a plane takes away from other buckets of money. That said, I don?t want to wait until I?m 60 and then not have ?time? with my family in the plane. Can?t have it all in life.
Thanks again for anything you all have to say.

Dave
 
I don't think there's been any part of the build process where I haven't had second thoughts from time to time. The first big one came when the preview plans showed up. I spent ten minutes looking at them and in that time was completely overwhelmed. A day or two later I picked them up again and it was all better.

And that's a theme that's repeated itself throughout the build. Building is a near-constant process of learning new skills and solving new problems, and every once in a while something frustrating comes up and makes me wonder if I can actually finish this thing. And just like that first day with the preview plans, when I come back after having slept on it, everything's OK again.

The one bit of advice I'll give, to you and anyone else considering building, is to make sure you look at the build process as something to be enjoyed on its own merits, not simply a chore that has to be completed to get a flying airplane. Building will take up far more of your time, money, and brain cycles than you think, and the only way to reliably get over the inevitable humps and obstacles is to be thinking about "keep building." In my mind, the knowledge that I'll eventually have a great airplane at the end of this project is almost a side effect. In the here and now, airplane-building is just another extracurricular activity.
 
I started my -8 in late 1999 and first flew it in Nov 2016. In the interim, I moved 3 times, and started a small business. I did not work on the plane for at least 10 of those years and I was encouraged to sell the project. In fact, I ended up selling an engine and prop in those 10 years because I wasn't making progress on it. I am not the kind to say quit. In fact, I tell people my motto is "too stupid to quit". For me, it was not only a desire to finish the plane, it was a desire to prove them all wrong and make them admit it (which they happily did).

Bottom line is that life will throw you curves in the process and it's up to you how you deal with them. In the end, there's you need only one tool to finish these projects, and that's grim determination.

Of course, the RV-14 kits are easiest and anyone taking more than a few months to complete one is a putz :D :eek: :p
 
Absolutely this +1

The one bit of advice I'll give, to you and anyone else considering building, is to make sure you look at the build process as something to be enjoyed on its own merits, not simply a chore that has to be completed to get a flying airplane.
 
I don?t want to fail but family comes first. I want to do this with them, not against them. I don?t want to be selfish with my time or money.

Your priorities are commendable and will keep you on the path to making this project happen in a manner so your family will share in the endeavor. Trust your judgment, you will be fine.....and enjoy the journey!
 
Thank you. I feel the build is what I will enjoy the most also. The flying plane is just an extra bonus.

You're smart to be taking a hard look at this before taking the plunge. It's a huge time commitment and the "life long memories" you create for your family might not necessarily be good ones for them. I guess what I'm trying to say is make sure that your dream is their dream as well.

Best of luck with your decision.

Jim
 
My only regrets/second thoughts are:

(1) Not starting sooner - I've always known I wanted to build (at least since we built my dad's -6), but didn't get serious about saving up and getting started for a few years after getting out of school. I could have gotten more done and been further along by this point, but I spent that time and money on other things (coughMBAcough) for a while first.

(2) Building my workshop - This one is a mixed case; I love having the space (vs. the one-car garage I was in before) and it's great to work in, but building it locked us into our current house for a while and for the money I spent, I could have bought most of my panel. Again, mixed blessing.


We've faced some challenges in the past couple years (see build thread) and having a young child makes progress slow at times, but on the bright side I should still be flying around the time my son is old enough to really appreciate it. I was fortunate that I was able to come home and fly with Dad during college; my son will grow up with the airplane at home.


One thing I did learn from my workshop though--sometimes certain steps or procedures will seem really daunting and you'll think "how in the heck am I going to do all that?". In those cases, you'll think over it for a while and then eventually you just have to jump in somewhere and start doing it and you figure it out as you go. Foundation prep, doors/windows, and air conditioning were those things on the shop; so far on the airplane it's been flight surface rigging/drilling, fuel routing, and engine mount drilling.
 
Do it, and don't look back.

There are those builders who have no distractions, and there are the ones like yourself that have responsibilities and "life happens" things on a daily basis. If the build is a dream, then do it. I built my -4 over a 15yr. period that included 4 moves, 2 kids, building a house, changing jobs and going through a divorce. The building the plane part was always the one thing to take away from the stress of life's obstacles. My youngest son was by my side in the shop from the time he was 1 year old until the first flight when he was 16. He is now 26 and a aircraft mechanic working with me on the "big stuff". For anyone building virtually any RV design, as long as you maintain quality and documentation, chances are if you throw in the towel for any reason, it can be sold without fearing a terrible $$ loss. Build it!
 
Investment

The less money I had invested in the project, the more doubts I had. I got easily discouraged and quit for almost a year when I ran up against a snag on the empennage. The more kits/money, the easier it was for me to find motivation and determination.

I did the best I could to involve my family and even foreign exhchage students. I have their signatures on hidden parts they helped me build. It makes me smile when finding their mark when opening an inspection panel now and then.

Best of luck with your build!
 
I was well into my 50's when I started my slow build -6A. Had a family, two small kids, and a somewhat supportive wife. I was an electrical design / development engineer with a large computer company and traveled for the company frequently.

My build did not interfere with the family. They came first. I am fortunate that I don't sleep much. I would get up around 2am each weekday morning and work in the basement shop until 6am. Then help with the kids, go to work and be home early evening. Weekends were for the family, but I could steal a moment or two and not cause the wife grief. The build took 13 years and 5,000 hours, not counting the time to paint.

I did, and still do, enjoy the build process. And as an engineer, I relish problems and discovering solutions. Building gave me something to do in the early morning hours when I was awake anyway.
 
Thank you to everyone for the wise words and support. I’m currently working on getting work space ready. Heat, insulation, another work bench and more lighting. It interesting how much we spend just to start building. Thanks again everyone. My next call will be to Cleaveland Tools. Talked to Mike at OSH and that guy knows his s@it.
 
You?ld be crazy not to have second thoughts. I bought my tail kit mid twenties and newly married and hoping to fly by 30. 3 kiddos later and mid thirties brought the first flight, lots of obstacles along the way that sometimes halted progress for months at a time but I liked the challenge of the build.

After 5 years of flying and over 400 hours the RV is kinda part of the family, kiddo #4 bugs me weekly to go flying and the wife is starting to prefer it over the airlines.
 
Rule #1

Rule number 1, if you want to fly buy a plane, if you want to build a plane build a plane.

I feel that for me building the plane was the largest mistake I ever made in my life. 57 years old employed high profile position engineer, a lot more money than time but no kids. I am a very capable individual with a lot of interests in life. Bought an RV9A quick build kit that had already been owned by 2 people to complete to about 60%. I had a sabbatical from work that gave me about 800 hours of time to work on the plane. Also mentored a teen to help me work on it for a summer as I worked on it.

The empennage workmanship was good by the first owner but canopy by the second was a write off plus the upper fuselage skins. Reading Vans estimates I thought it was take around 800 hours to complete the plane. I am just entering paint on the plane and have well have over 2000 hours into the project in the last 4 years. Work on it 3 to 4 nights a week for 3 to 4 hours plus a day on the weekend.

Not a show plane but the plane is very nice however, full IFR panel, BRS chute, CS prop, interior, O2?.. I will be a really nice plane when done.

Building these planes well takes skill, ability and lots of attention to detail. Don?t let anyone tell you different. The number of mistakes I found by the second builder was incredible and he was an airline A&P. If I had been retired looking for something to do this would be a different story.

My regret is how much the plane subtracted from my life to have the time to enjoy other things. As it also took so long build it subtracted from the mission of flying it.

Building is fun, frustrating and sometimes soul crushing.

If Vans really want to expand their market they need to really focus improving manufacturability and getting the build time to realistic 500 hours. I took that quick build class from Synergy Air as they were building 12?s, Wally the owner had a great saying ?The problem with Vans is they assume your time is free?

Simple things like build all those brackets and parts and so on from raw stock takes a lot of time, Hard to see why Vans could not offer an option were you just buy all that stuff CNCed. Seem like they are getting there with the newer kits, but not very fast. Granted there are people out there that think pre-punched holes are cheating.
 
If Vans really want to expand their market they need to really focus improving manufacturability and getting the build time to realistic 500 hours. I took that quick build class from Synergy Air as they were building 12’s, Wally the owner had a great saying “The problem with Vans is they assume your time is free”

Simple things like build all those brackets and parts and so on from raw stock takes a lot of time, Hard to see why Vans could not offer an option were you just buy all that stuff CNCed. Seem like they are getting there with the newer kits, but not very fast. Granted there are people out there that think pre-punched holes are cheating.

The problem I think is that 51% rule ...
 
Not touched on is the psychological ups and downs. You have to be totally comfortable with making mistakes, some that could be costly. Little kids and wife can?t see the build turning you into a angry father/husband or they will come to hate the plane. Want nothing to do with it.
Boeing makes mistakes, daddy, or wife or kids will too.
Also, build for yourself and allow them to be drawn in. Then, not only will you be a builder but a teacher as well.
Our ideal dream seldom happens. Expect others to have different peaks and valleys of interest and not be disappointed theirs do not match yours.
Making request for help and time works better than making demands,
?Hon, when?s a good time we can work together??.

If your kids are 10 or younger, put a high latch on the workshop to guard the shop. Little ones love daddy?s tools and will make perfect dents and holes where you don?t want one. Build the test kit/toolbox together.

Finally, when I make a mistake I always say in my best Australian accent
?Bloody Roo, a hellava fine croc **** job.? Then move on.
Do not allow the build to make you unhappy.
Good luck!

R
 
If Vans really want to expand their market they need to really focus improving manufacturability and getting the build time to realistic 500 hours. I took that quick build class from Synergy Air as they were building 12?s, Wally the owner had a great saying ?The problem with Vans is they assume your time is free?
Many factors at play. Want to save time and have a faster build? You'll pay for it in dollars and/or a simpler (read: heavier) structure, at least in metal.

Van's could probably improve the designs from a manufacturability standpoint but then they'd run the risk of pricing themselves out of a market. Not everyone has wads of cash to drop all at once on a build.

Simple things like build all those brackets and parts and so on from raw stock takes a lot of time, Hard to see why Vans could not offer an option were you just buy all that stuff CNCed. Seem like they are getting there with the newer kits, but not very fast. Granted there are people out there that think pre-punched holes are cheating.
Some of that is the 51% rule and calculation of work done as scored by the FAA. This calculation is very heavily weighted towards building the structure over systems and finishing, and fabrication of a certain proportion of parts from raw stock helps get to that 51% number. At least it's cutting and drilling parts from extrusion and not cutting and forming 20 identical ribs or something.

The resources are already out there to help get your build time down if you have the cash to pay for them. Quickbuild kits, builder's assist programs, prewired panels, complete interiors, and now supplied harnesses are all out there.
 
a.) so now I want to build but with my wife and kids.
b.) I know that in the end getting to fly around with my family is fun for me but what if they want nothing to do with it?
c.) I don?t want to fail but family comes first.
d.) I want to do this with them, not against them. I don?t want to be selfish with my time or money. Money in a plane takes away from other buckets of money.
e.) That said, I don?t want to wait until I?m 60 and then not have ?time? with my family in the plane.


Spend time with your wife and your kids. Go on vacations, go to school events, go out to eat, go on picnics.... take her on dates and stay up late with her. Do ALL the stuff you are going to do with your family because its fun and we are all happier spending time with the ones we love.

But build the plane for YOU. There is usually spare time. Let family and friends help if they want to... but don't expect them to want to. Its YOUR dream... most likely not theirs. If you are happy because you build a plane in the off time, then every one else will be happier too. We all need time to do things we want to do.... so if you want to build a plane, well then get started. Spend your fair share of money on the project.... I am certain that my family could have a nicer X or a nicer Y if I wasn't building a plane... but who cares? We all get stuff we don't need.... but just cause you are Dad doesn't mean you shouldn't get to spend some too.

That being said.... If you can't afford it, then build something less expensive. Don't start building a real airplane if its going to cause financial stress.... because that will make your family hate the project.
 
Many factors at play. Want to save time and have a faster build? You'll pay for it in dollars and/or a simpler (read: heavier) structure, at least in metal.

Van's could probably improve the designs from a manufacturability standpoint but then they'd run the risk of pricing themselves out of a market. Not everyone has wads of cash to drop all at once on a build.


Some of that is the 51% rule and calculation of work done as scored by the FAA. This calculation is very heavily weighted towards building the structure over systems and finishing, and fabrication of a certain proportion of parts from raw stock helps get to that 51% number. At least it's cutting and drilling parts from extrusion and not cutting and forming 20 identical ribs or something.

The resources are already out there to help get your build time down if you have the cash to pay for them. Quickbuild kits, builder's assist programs, prewired panels, complete interiors, and now supplied harnesses are all out there.

Fabricate Brackets and Fittings is one line item in AC 20-27 for both wings and Fuselage. So easy to make this work, have the part CNCed and drilled, the user just drills to final size, just like you do on all the rest of metal on the plane. Lots of ways to make the rules work. Clearly there are two weeks to taxi out there that take this concept to extreme. Look at how Cub Crafters makes this work. The thing is end the end you get quality, a safer product in less time at a higher cost but a bigger market size. If your old school just buy the slow build. I would have gladly paid 3K for the partial machined parts.

The cost of the quick build air-frame is less than 25% of the total cost for my RV9A yet it ate almost all the time.

Like it said it would be nice to just pick your place on the cost vs. time curve other than just the quick build option. How many people in the know what pick a 7 over a 14 given the cost? I think most would pick the 14. It would be interesting to see the sales numbers.
 
How many people in the know what pick a 7 over a 14 given the cost?

This guy, for one, and I knew what I was getting into from Dad's slow-build 6. The extra ~$20k ish in cost was the big deciding factor. But I'm on the "pay cash as you go" plan and went slow-build to save money.

Again, though, the market already has the means in place to exchange more cash for less building; you're welcome to avail yourself of it. Plus, it may not be the most profitable use of labor and capital at Van's to do more finishing work when there are others out there who can. I'd prefer they keep making affordable kits.
 
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